About This Episode - 

Hosted by Warren Mainard and Jon Beazley. Courage means facing your fear, but it can also mean choosing to press forward in difficult circumstances, being vulnerable, and pushing past your comfort zone. Tune in to hear Clark Robert's story of facing life-altering news and how men can step into being strong and courageous in their lives and marriages.

Warren Mainard is the National Director of IMPACT Players, an author, speaker, and connector. He has 30 years of ministry experience as a pastor, nonprofit leader, and church planter. You can connect with Warren on Facebook, Instagram, and X. Warren is also available to speak on your podcast or event! Email him at [email protected].

Jon Beazley is the owner of Mind and Body and the host of the Mind and Body Podcast! Jon has served as a church planter and pastor and now as an entrepreneur and small business owner. You can connect with Jon on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

Clark Roberts is the Executive Director and Founder of Ultimate Vision and the host of the Coffee with Clark & Karrie podcast. Ultimate Vision is on a mission to inspire measurable acts of compassion and kindness in communities around the world. You can connect with Clark on Facebook , Instagram, and YouTube. 

To find out more about IMPACT Players, visit www.impactplayers.org.

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Show Notes:

• YouVersion Bible App

Transcript

Warren Mainard: Hello and welcome to the IMPACT Players Linking Shields podcast. My name is Warren Mainard, I'm the National Director for IMPACY Players, and we are in for a great, great episode today, as we are talking about courage. With me is my friend Jon Beazley, who is helping to co-host this podcast. And I'm so excited to have our special guest today, Clark Roberts of Ultimate Vision. He's got a phenomenal story and marvelous wisdom and insight he is gonna share with us around this theme today of courage. But before we get into that, we wanna just say thank you for being a part of the IMPACT Players community. If you would like to find out more about IMPACT Players, come and visit us on our website, impactplayers.org, where you will find Bible study materials for your men's group. You'll find resources to help you grow as a husband, a father, a leader; an online community; courses; and cohort materials to help you grow to be the man that you wanna be and that God called you to be. So, we are going to be talking about courage because for most men, if you were to say, what are the hallmarks of a hero? Probably the first word is going to be courage. And yet we live in a world where it can be difficult to step up and to be strong and courageous, like Joshua, with so many things coming against us. So, Clark, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining us. Share a little bit of who you are and your story, and then we're gonna talk about this courage theme together.

Clark Roberts: Okay, perfect. Thank you so very much, Warren. It is a privilege to be here and to share through the IMPACT Players podcast. Who am I? Well, as Warren stated, I run a nonprofit corporation called Ultimate Vision and if you'd like to go find out more about that, you can go to ultimate-vision.org. I am also a husband and I met my wife on a blind date. I am a father of two amazing grown children. I'm a very proud papa of three amazing granddaughters and I, today have all three of 'em in the house. It's been fun today. I am a sports enthusiast who enjoys football; baseball, the Mariners are doing a great job right now; hockey; and I love horse racing. I'm also an outdoor enthusiast who enjoys downhill snow skiing, water skiing, horseback riding, tandem bike riding, jumping out of perfectly good airplanes and driving rally cars. Oh, yes. I am also blind. And yes, I do all of those things that I just mentioned, but because blindness, my physical blindness does not define who I am. I am a person who, for whatever reason has broken eyes. I was an 18-year-old freshman attending the University of Idaho, who had my entire, had my entire life in front of me. I figured that within four, maybe five years tops, I would graduate and I would go out to have an incredible, adventuresome, courageous life, doing the things that I wanted to do, meeting all the people that I wanted to meet and having that incredible opportunity. On a very cold winter day on February 28th of 1973, my life got totally turned upside down, rearranged, and I thought it was over. I would sit in a doctor's office at Pullman, Washington and listen to the doctor on the other side of his desk tell me that I have a disease known as retinitis pigmentosa and that I was going blind. I would immediately go into shut down mode and get mad, frustrated, angry, and scared all about that fast. I would return to my dorm room on the University of Idaho campus, and I would sit on my dorm floor bawling like a baby, and thinking that it is time to just check out, end my life, and commit suicide. Because at that point in time, all I knew about blindness and blind people was they did not get to have much of a life. And if they did have a life, they were just going to exist. And existence did not give me any kind of hope or excitement. I still wanted to go out and enjoy life and to do the incredible things that I did before that, and just to have a great life. So, as I'm sitting there on my floor, in my pool of tears, I would remember two little verses of scripture given to me by my mom before I went away to school that fall. The first one says this, "Trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge me, Clark, and I will make your path straight." The other one says, "Clark, I know the plans that I have for you not to harm you, but to prosper you, to give you a hope and a future." So basically, God was telling me, Clark, be brave, be courageous. Grab a hold of my hand and walk with me, and I will make it all okay. Doesn't say that it'll become perfect, but it says it will be okay. It'll be made straight. It says that you don't have to understand everything. And that is the, probably the, in that, in those two little versions of Proverbs 3:5-6, the things that grab a hold of me is the fact of going, I don't have to understand all of the wheres the whens, the whats, the whys, the hows. All I am required to do is to be obedient and trust God.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: And if I'm obedient and trust God, he will take care of me. And he has taken care of me over and over and over again. But at the same time, and I think one of the things that we're gonna get into this afternoon as far as in regards to IMPACT Players guys, is do not do life alone. You need others when things are not going okay. Even though you have God, you know God, and you're plugged into God, you need somebody that at two and three in the morning, that you can call and say, "Hey, I'm struggling."

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: I don't know how the bills are gonna get paid. I don't know about this, that, and the other thing. But you need somebody that you can just call and say, "Hey, this is what's going on and I need you." And oh, yeah. I did not throw my life away. Because if I had, you and I would not be sitting here having this conversation today talking about courage.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: The moral strength. The moral strength that allows you to be able to persevere and to go forward and to have a life.

Warren Mainard: Wow. I love it. Clark, thank you so much for sharing. And I just wanna, I wanna dive in first to something that you mentioned at the beginning of your story. You talked about sitting in that doctor's office and receiving that news. That was just devastating: you're going to lose your eyesight. And only a select few people will find themselves in that precise position. But in general, every one of us at some point in our life, is probably going to receive some news that feels like their life is coming to an end. That feels like, everything that they've held onto is going to be taken away from them. So, what are some, just some general principles, and I think you kind of touched on this a little bit with your story, but when a man finds himself in a position where he is saying, I didn't choose this. I'm not choosing to be courageous for the sake of being courageous. This is not a Mountain Dew commercial, but I'm being... this challenge is being thrust upon me, and now I have to respond with courage. What are some of those principles that you might throw out?

Clark Roberts: Well, first of all, and it is, and this happens with everything that comes to you in life, it's a choice. You have that choice on how you're going to react with what it is that's being dumped in your lap or what you're coming up against. In the beginning, I didn't want to tell anybody. Anybody. Even my roommate because I didn't want the guys on my floor, the guys that I had grown close to, the guys that we'd become soccer playing fanatics from the University of Idaho campus, and just going and doing things. I did not want them to basically say, okay, now that you're gonna become blind, you're going to be different. You're gonna be somebody that we don't wanna hang out with. And I didn't want that.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: But I needed to be vulnerable enough to share what was happening. And it happened two weeks after because my roommate was a junior pre-veterinary major, and Friday night was our night to go hang out with each other. And we would rotate back and forth week to week as far as who was gonna choose and what we were gonna go do. He was a junior pre-veterinary major, so he was studying medicine in all kinds of ways and shapes and forms. So it's Friday, his night and he goes, "Clark," he says, "How about if we go to dinner at the A&W place just off campus?" I'm going, cool. Anytime somebody wants to take me out to lunch, dinner - they're gonna pay, I mean, I'm all in. So we go to dinner, we order our food. We're sitting at a corner booth and place is pretty much empty that night, for whatever reasons, it's about seven o'clock. And I'm munching on my french fries and all of a sudden Scott drops this bomb on my lap. He says, "Clark, you are acting weird. You've been acting weird for the last two weeks. What in the world is going on?" And I kind of swallowed real hard. And I looked at him and I said, "Okay. Okay, Mr. smart guy, what do you know about retinitis pigmentosa?" And he turned around and answered me, and almost textbook answer what I'd heard from the doctor two weeks before. And I said, "I've got it." So for the next hour, we talked, we cried, we talked, and we cried some more. And then he said this to me, he says, "Clark, I don't care where you go, what you do, or what happens, I will always, always be your friend." And that was huge. It was huge to me because I believe that it was the starting of my healing process of being able to be vulnerable and open up, and to share what was going on in my life so that others could come around side of me and show me and assist me - that life still was gonna be okay, and it would still exist. I didn't know how, but this was the first person that was willing to say, "Clark, it'll be okay. I'll still be your friend." So I think, it's a choice. It's your choice as far as what you do with it. Then I believe you need to be vulnerable. You need to be willing to share with one or two others, letting them know what's going on. Not holding it all inside, because I mean, I used to be a great stuffer.

Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.

Clark Roberts: Stuffers don't get along real well, because I mean, you could stuff as much as you want in here...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: ...but at some point, you're gonna explode. And when the explosion happens, it's not pretty and it's not good. So you need to be able to share what's happening and to allow the stress and the pressure to be removed and allowing others to be your friend, be your brother.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: Yeah. It might not be pretty. And there are things that maybe you might have to deal with that you don't want to deal with, that they're challenging you on. But allow them to be there, to be that individual that that you're gonna be willing to allow to come alongside and to assist you. But it boils down first to your choice.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: And I believe, at least for myself, as in walking with God, that it was God who helped me make that choice. And the interesting thing, and the one thing that I didn't share in this, and through my story is that in December, two months before February 28th of 1973, was when I really, truly gave my life over to God and said, "Here, it's yours."

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Clark Roberts: You can have my life. You can take my life. You can use my life, and you can assist me to interact with whatever you have for me in my life. And then two months later, boom.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Jon Beazley: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: I believe that because of that, that I'm here today being the courageous man that God wants me to be.

Warren Mainard: Oh, man. That's so good, Clark, and I love just how you were about... it really is about a choice. I think a lot of times men convince themselves, I don't have a choice. I'm stuck. There's no way out. I have to take this path. And then that vulnerability to share what you're going through. And that is in itself an act of massive courage to be vulnerable like that. So, Jon, I know you have been in this situation where you've gotten profoundly life-altering news...

Jon Beazley: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: ...that you had to then process. Reflecting on some of what Clark shared, would you add anything to that about how to respond, encourage when you get that piece of news that just changes everything?

Jon Beazley: Yeah. Well, Clark, first your story is so encouraging. Thank you for sharing it.

Clark Roberts: Oh, absolutely.

Jon Beazley: I've not heard your story before, so it was, it was huge just to hear. So thank you for sharing that.

Clark Roberts: Oh, absolutely.

Jon Beazley: Two things came to my mind when you said it first. It's like, so it's not, we can't really dictate what happens to us, but we can choose what happens in us. You modeled hey, I can't change my circumstance, but I can change how I respond to it.

Clark Roberts: Right.

Jon Beazley: But I also thought it was, it's very natural for us and biblical for us to lament. And you gave yourself space to actually just kind of pour out your heart. At first it was just between you and God. But then, I was thinking about this idea of bravery 'cause it's so easy for us as men to define that as like, I'm gonna be tough. But actually bravery led you to vulnerability. I think it was, the historic writer, Seneca, that says, "He who is brave is free." And at that moment, you, when you opened up to your friend, that was bravery. Just being really super vulnerable. And I was thinking, man, what must you have been feeling when you heard this news? Probably felt like, no one's gonna understand what I'm going through. I mean, who do I know that has this? So there's loneliness.

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Jon Beazley: And you almost kind of feel like, I'm gonna be abandoned to this. I'm gonna have to face this alone. And your bravery, which led to vulnerability, actually addressed those two issues. Your friend just sat with you. It's like, Hey, I'm still gonna be your friend.

Clark Roberts: Right.

Jon Beazley: I mean, I just think how healing that was.

Clark Roberts: Yeah, yeah.

Jon Beazley: You to be like, hey, I'm not alone and I'm not abandoned.

Clark Roberts: Well, and I think also, the fact of knowing that I'm now going to be blind, physically blind, feeling like that everything that I wanted to go and do was going to go out the window and not being able to do anything anymore.

Jon Beazley: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: I had been an avid downhill skier up until the time that the doctors told me. And I thought, I thought my skis were gone. I think that, I thought that that was all totally, completely over.

Jon Beazley: So...

Clark Roberts: And then my... Go ahead.

Jon Beazley: Sorry to interrupt you. You're gonna have to tell me later though, how you still ski. I would be very unsatisfied with this podcast, if I get to the end. I'm like, how does he still do this? I've got to know. You don't have to tell us now, but we've gotta know.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. That's a great segue 'cause I wanted to talk a little bit about the courage to try new things, the courage to go new places, the courage to take on new challenges, because we talk a lot about being in our comfort zone, being out of our comfort zone in a lot of different ways...

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Warren Mainard: ...areas in our life. Typically what we do in our comfort zone does not require courage. Typically, what we do outside of our comfort zone is where the courage comes into play. So maybe share a little bit about that, whether it's strapping on skis or jumping out of a plane, or maybe it's just the courage to take a new step in your business or in your finances or career. What are some of those keys to stepping out of your comfort zone and believing that you can do something that you've never done before?

Clark Roberts: Well, first of all, interestingly enough, when you look at the word courage or even bravery, okay. Both of those words are adjectives, which means that it requires action. And, and so like I said earlier, it's the choice. What action are you going to do in and around being courageous and brave with whatever is going on in your life? Okay. But I believe also that there's this three letter word that becomes very, very important in our life, whether it's in our business, whether it's in sports, whether it's in your personal life or whatever. And that three letter word is 'try.' I remember that in the early stages of walking through my sight loss. I would get these great ideas of things that I wanted to go and do. I mean, to continue school, to continue skiing, continue all of these things, until, and everybody kept telling me, Clark, you're gonna fall on your... you can't 'cause you're gonna fall on your face and you're gonna break your nose. And I started getting really aggravated and upset about hearing this contraction word can't, can not. And one afternoon I was counseling with a pastor friend of mine, and I said, "Ellis, everybody keeps telling me that I can't and because I can't, that I'm gonna fall on my face and break my nose." And he leaned back in his chair that afternoon, and he says, "Clark, how do you know that you are going to fall on your face and break your nose if you never, ever try?" And that was one of those huge aha moments. Going, okay, if I never, ever try, how do I know that I'm gonna fall on my face? And even if I do fail, according to society, failure's not the end. Failure is a stepping stone to being successful.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: You get back up and you go again. I've been watching our almost 1-year-old granddaughter who's getting very close to walking. She keeps falling on her little bottom, but she keeps getting back up. She stands real still in her core and everything. She's stable. And she'll take maybe one or two steps holding onto something. And then when she, lets go, she's not really, she's not very strong. And she'll fall down, but it's not the end. She's continuing to... as she would fall at her bottom, she would get back up. And she continues to go and to continue to try. And that's what all of us need to do, is to continue to try and to be the best that we can do. But it's back to the whole aspect of it being a choice, being an adjective, being action. Yes, sometimes when you're thinking of doing something new, something that you've never, ever done before, whether it's learning a new piece of computer software, whether it's being introduced to a new iPhone, smartphone, figuring out how that it does everything that it does. Or for me, even to change dogs, guide dogs, there's this whole aspect that I have to be willing to try and to learn and to figure out, okay, is this gonna work this way? Or do I have to then come back, regroup and figure out something new? So it, but it's about being willing, being willing and having that trying attitude in all areas of our life. Not just personal, not just business. Being a father, I mean, interesting thing. You become a father of a child at whatever age, there's no manual that comes with that.

Jon Beazley: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: You have to just, in some ways it's trial and error, using common sense, praying a lot, and allowing God to guide you. But it's being willing to take the steps forward to become the best father, the best husband, the best man that you can become after you've taken that choice and you're willing to try.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. That's so...

Jon Beazley: This reminds me... sorry.

Warren Mainard: Go ahead, Jon.

Jon Beazley: This reminds me, Clark of a, it's a statement. I wonder if you would agree with it? It kind of really fits in with what you're saying. It's from Thomas Watson. He says, "The fastest way to succeed is to double your failure rate." And what he means by that is like, just run towards the thing, and you're gonna fail, and you're gonna learn what not to do and what to do. But everyone else...

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Jon Beazley: Everyone else is still sitting there trying to figure out, how should I proceed forward? Should I proceed forward? He is like, Hey, just chase the thing. "The fastest way to succeed is double your failure rate." And I just always kind of like that quote, because it's embracing failure as a pathway to success rather than the avoidance of any type of failure. And it sounds like that's really what you were trying...

Clark Roberts: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, I totally agree. And one other things that I was just thinking about is the fact that as our kids, our son and our daughter were growing up and they were trying to figure out, what am I gonna do next? We would tell 'em, you know what, go talk to people in that particular field or that particular area, and figure out, maybe not so much as far as what you wanna do, but what you don't wanna do. And, and it's the fact of looking at it from both sides. So yes, I'm kind of maybe sort of interested in this, but after going and talking to them going, no, that's not what I wanna do. But it's the fact of, or even maybe going and trying it for a little period of time, that's not wrong. And if you're coming back and saying, no, that's not failure. That's just basically trying to figure out, this is not me. This doesn't fit me, so I wanna go do this. So it's, but yeah, I mean, failure is not a total complete negative. It's just the fact of going, you know what, I didn't make the mark this time, but I'm gonna get back up and I'm gonna try again. It's how we all learned how to ride a bicycle.

Jon Beazley: Yes. Right.

Clark Roberts: You had to fall down once or twice or maybe even three or four times before you figured out how to keep the pedals going around fast enough to keep gravity and keep the bike straight, upright so it doesn't fall over on you.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: But it's about getting back up and going and trying and becoming - becoming that best individual that you can become every single day.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. I love that Clark. And I think, just that simple three letter word: try.

Clark Roberts: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: So inspirational, because I think we live in a world where a lot of people feel like it's either I've gotta be the best and I have to be an unmitigated winner, or I shouldn't even do it at all. And I think, you know, we're seeing a lot of young people quit sports at a younger age. We're seeing people kind of give up on career paths at a younger age. And I think a lot of it has to do with that idea of like, if I don't see how I'm gonna be the best at it from day one, then it's not worth doing. But there's something about trying and the courage to give it a shot. That even if you don't get to the goal, you've grown, you become a better person, you become a stronger person, you've learned some lessons, and in the trying, you may be setting yourself up for success in the future. So I want to change gears, though.

Clark Roberts: Okay.

Warren Mainard: Because we could talk about that particular thread for a while, but I wanna talk about the courage that it takes to be a leader in your home, to be a leader in your marriage and in your family. And one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is I've had several men who I've talked to over the last couple years who have confided that they struggle with fear in relationship to their wives. Now, they're not afraid of their wife physically. Like they're not afraid that their wife is gonna beat them up. But, they feel afraid to lead in their marriage because they're afraid that their wife is going to not respond well to it. They're afraid that they don't have as much spiritual strength or maturity as their wife does. Maybe they feel like, their wife is going to be critical of them if they try to lead spiritually because of some of the mistakes they've made in their past. So, when it comes to kind of courage in your marriage and saying, coming to a point where you're able to be courageous enough to say, I want to lovingly lead you in this marriage, like Christ leads the church. What are some words of encouragement or some experiences, principles that you might share for men, especially if you've got a strong-willed, outspoken type of a spouse. How do you lead in those scenarios?

Clark Roberts: Well, the first thing that I say to do or to do is to find a time for the two of you that you can sit down and pray together. I believe that that prayer is a way to start. Whatever time of the day that is, pray together. I am a very, very blessed man because I not only get to spend a lot of time with my wife, but we get to work together and do a lot of those types of things. So on days that we're not running out the door to early meetings, our time is in the morning, we'll do a small devotional out of, using YouVersion Bible app. Then we'll pray together. And that's how we start our day. And even if we're headed off to a meeting together, we will always find time even in the car to pray together, because it is God who gives me and it's the God who gives her the strength and the ability to interact with everything that gets thrown at us during the day. And it starts, for me it starts by God. Another thing that you can do that I learned a couple of years ago that was thrown at me in a leadership class is start a gratitude journal. Be grateful. Find three things, three things every single day, and be grateful. Philippians 4:8 says, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely or whatever is excellent. If any of these are excellent or worthy of praise, think upon such things." Those are the things to think upon during your day. Not all of the craziness or the fact that you just got cut off by a crazy driver on the freeway, or this or that happened, but remembering God has given each and every one of us this day. God knew what was gonna happen in this day before you and I ever even got out of bed. But God gives us the, he gives you, he gives me the trust to interact with my day every single moment, because trust is that ingredient that I hang onto as I hang onto God's hand. And knowing that I'm not only allowing to be trusting in God, but I'm also walking every single step with the Prince of Peace. And so, when my life seems to be total, chaotic and confused and everything, I come back to prayer. And even every single time that I walk into a speaking engagement, I have a group of people that I will text and I say, hey, this is what's going on. These are the, these are the things. Would you please pray for me tomorrow as I walk into that environment The times that I have walked into to those without doing that, they don't go very well. So I know that God has given me the strength and the ability to go and do that. So, between you and your spouse, find some time to pray. Find some time to dream together. Find some time to talk about those commonality things. The biggest thing that my wife and I are trying to do right now is finding time just for ourselves, rather than just all of the time that we spend working together and being together. But it's finding time to walk away from the business and allow God to still use us and to help us to dream and to be the individuals that God wants us to be. But it's by spending that time together. And even as I look back on our life, before we even got married, we would spend time on the phone in the evening praying with each other. So prayer is, I believe that prayer is one of these huge building blocks that is so powerful and beneficial for your life.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. That's great. Jon, would you add anything to that? Thank you, Clark.

Clark Roberts: You're welcome.

Jon Beazley: It was so well said. I absolutely loved what you communicated. And, I like how the, you put the central hub back to, hey, spend time praying together.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Jon Beazley: Because it's easy to kind of go back to what you said earlier, the verse you used, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not onto your own understanding." It's so easy at, for men to strategize. Alright, let's come up with a sound strategy. And it often doesn't start with let's talk to God together.

Clark Roberts: Yep.

Jon Beazley: And so it seems a bit counterintuitive. I was just, when you said this, a passage of scripture popped in my head, and it's kind of a random passage of scripture, but in 1 Peter, Peter says, Hey, the end of all things is at hand. And then he, what he follows that statement is instruction to the church. And I'm just thinking like, what would you say after that? Like, okay, everything's getting ready to end. The end of all things is at hand. So what's the instruction? What would you give... maybe somebody would say, buy a bomb shelter, or I dunno, they would maybe come with several things. The first thing that he says is that they would actually have self control, like a sober spirit unto prayer. So the first thing was like, Hey, learn to be in control of yourself so that you would find yourself in a prayer position.

Clark Roberts: Yeah.

Jon Beazley: And I think that's what you're saying, like, hey, Warren couched this in the context of a troubled child or a stubborn child. And it's so easy to kind of psychologize that one. And I think it's good to kind of get underneath, like how's the kid think? What would relate with them? How can I connect with them in a deeper way? How can I build a relationship? But your first part was like, hey, let's pray through this together. And I just love that. I think that's a great place to start.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. And I wanna...

Clark Roberts: Go ahead.

Warren Mainard: ...break that down...

Clark Roberts: Go ahead, Warren.

Warren Mainard: ...a bit, because I think for a lot of men, they might hear this and they might go, okay, being courageous to my wife, and the answer is pray with my wife. That doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't connect. It seems like you're answering a different question than the one that I just asked you. But I think when you really stop to think about it, and I've been able to see this in my own life and in my own marriage, is that when you step into a room, especially with your wife, and you say, here's the plan. This is what we're gonna do, I need you to follow me. Immediately there's a question of where's this coming from and on what authority are you telling me that this is what we're going to do as a family. These are the decisions that we're going to make as a family. And so I think by beginning with prayer, first of all, a lot of guys have this idea that spiritual leadership in their home is something akin to being a pastor or a president, kind of speaking from a podium. It's not like that at all. So just simply being the one to say, "Let's pray." is an act of spiritual leadership. And when you invite your wife to pray with you, you're able to say things to the Lord that are on your heart, and that, you're seeking wisdom for, and you're doing it in the presence of your wife. So now she's getting a glimpse into what you're thinking, how you're feeling, your heart, your desires. And you're building trust with her through the things that you say in your prayers. So, now she feels like she's a part of this equation. She's not just the number two in the military organization of your home carrying out orders.

Clark Roberts: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: But part of this with you. And now she's saying, okay, I see that number one, you're looking to the Lord, and that means that this isn't coming from you, this is coming from the Lord. Number two, you're bringing me into this with you. And number three, I'm understanding the heart behind it as you pray to the Lord with me. So guys, there's a lot of wisdom to this idea of if you wanna be courageous in your marriage, the first and most important step is to pray together with your wife, because it accomplishes so much more than maybe you imagine it really can.

Clark Roberts: And I also, I believe too, at least it's been in my life, that as the two of you pray together, it allows you then to be able to communicate with each other in areas of going, you know what, okay, this is happening and this is happening. So what do we do with it? How do we handle it? And it's the fact of, even as individuals have come to both my wife and I because one of the things that both she and I do is we are encouragers and, as people come to us for whatever it is, or come to talk to us about whatever, it's the fact of showing them through biblical application what to do in that situation. It's the fact, you know, and also being able to say, you know what, you need to pray about this. You need to talk to God and have that clear, concise communication link open, but at the same time that you're having clear, concise communication with God, being able to be open enough and silent enough to listen to what God is telling you.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: So much of the time, and I've been there myself at times, I'm talking to God, basically telling him what I think needs to happen and not being willing to sit and be silent and listen to what God wants to tell me to go and to do.

Jon Beazley: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: So, I mean, it's a two-way conversation. It's not just bringing this big list to God, it's coming to him, talking to him, and then allowing him to talk back to you. And I believe that when you start there in allowing God to be the center, God to be the hub of family, manhood, business...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: ...that it's gonna work a whole lot better.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Jon Beazley: I like how... Warren, you kind of brought this out too. So this process kind of slows the man down from being a bulldozer, because it's like, oh yeah, you're gonna be going, spending time in prayer. And initially, like this is, I mean, you're praying, you're submitting to the Sovereign One, right? So, but then, Warren, you brought out that it actually, it's almost like, hey, come along with me in discovering what we should do, rather than me coming in with a, I already got it figured out. So there's humility, there's an invitation to discover this together. Which, and then what you were talking about, Clark, is it facilitates a further discussion following.

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Jon Beazley: Humility, let's do this together, comradery. And then it facilitates that discussion to follow, which now I think now you're ready for the discussion. Like prior, you might have not been ready, but now you're ready.

Clark Roberts: Yeah.

Jon Beazley: For God's been this, as you put it, the central hub.

Clark Roberts: And as the two of you are working through those areas of your life or decisions that you're making, whether it's business or whatever aspect that that is, the two of you at certain points, might not be on the same page yet. And so if you act before the two of you are ready to move forward, that is detrimental as well. So in having, being able to have the conversation with each other, being able to have the conversation with God allows the two of you to get to this point that the hub is working very well together. I mean, all the spokes are true, and it's running in the right direction.

Jon Beazley: So I have a question. So this happens to a lot of men. They feel like they've lost the position as a spiritual leader. They just haven't led their family in prayer. They're like, man, I can't remember the last time I said, let's pray together. They just, maybe in a church context, but not in the home. And they want to be courageous. They feel like if I step in here and say, hey, let's pray together, they feel like they're going to be maybe a bit mocked, or maybe their spouse would kind of roll their eyes and say like, oh, now you wanna play the spiritual card? Now you wanna do this? No doubt there's some men saying...

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Jon Beazley: ...that may work for you guys, but for me, I don't know if I have, I could even broach that topic. What would be a good way for someone to kind of ease into that, and begin to change the culture? Change What's been the norm in that home?

Warren Mainard: Well, let me speak into that for a moment and then, Clark, please feel free to share your thoughts.

Clark Roberts: Oh, absolutely.

Warren Mainard: I think that this really leads in well to kind of the last big idea that I wanted to try to cover today, which is, where does courage come from? And so, men hear this all the time, be courageous, be brave, be courageous, be brave. But a lot of men find that it's, they're trying to scrape out courage out of a place of their life or their heart, their soul, where there's not much courage there. And so how do we kind of well up courage within us and, and tap into it? And I really think a lot of that has to do with understanding our identity and who we are, whose we are, and what our purpose is, our mission, our values, and our convictions. So, because I believe that I am a son of the King.

Clark Roberts: Yep.

Warren Mainard: And that I have been adopted, I've been saved by grace.

Clark Roberts: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: Not by my own works or willpower, because I believe that God is entrusted into me the role of spiritual leader and caregiver for my marriage in my home. I'm just trying to act out what God has already said I am. so I'm trying to be courageous out of the overflow of my identity and my convictions. And so if a man doesn't really know who he is, if he doesn't really understand his identity, or if he's built his identity on worldly things, and if he doesn't have any convictions, he doesn't really know what are the hills he is willing to die on, then he is probably not going to be courageous. And he is in the cross hairs of a difficult situation. He's gonna choose the easy way out the cowardly way out because no man intentionally wants to put himself in the line of fire unless he believes it is right for him to do so.

Clark Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.

Warren Mainard: So, Clark, would you add anything to that?

Clark Roberts: I think the only thing that I would really add to that is the fact that as you realize that you are a son of the King, and that you walk each day with God, and you walk with the Prince of Peace, that you need to grab a hold of the tools that God gives to you, so that you can be the best father, the best husband, the best leader, the best businessman. And that's one of the areas where I think the IMPACT Players as well as some of the other men's organizations across the country comes into and assists men to be able to do that. I mean, yes, I mean, there's a large group that can come together once a month for a breakfast, and that's great and wonderful as far as having and being able to hear from a speaker. But I mean, for me, these last several months as far as jumping into a cohort and being challenged by a leader to week after week, first of all, memorize one verse scripture a week, but then being able to come in and be open and vulnerable and sharing with 6, 8, 10 guys as far as what's really truly going on, or how this particular passage of scripture in this particular study applies to my life and applies to their life. And so I would say for, yes. I mean, yes, it is understanding that we all are connected to God, and that through his grace, the grace that should not have been given to each and every single one of us, because we all messed up. We messed up, but God was willing to send his Son. I mean, the way that I like to look at John 3:16 is like this, God allow his Son to come from his house to meet me in my house so that I can be with him in his house. But at the same time, I have to be willing to spend time with my son, my son-in-law, brothers that I deal with in business, and allowing them to see the fact that God, my Father who created me, he created me knowing that I was gonna have broken eyes, that when I would grab a hold of this challenge, and he gave me the strength. And knowing that I didn't have to understand what was going on, that he would go say, Clark, I want you to go here. I want you to go here. I want you to go here, and I want you to go here not only sharing your story, but as you share your story, you share me. You share who I am. You share the fact that it's through my strength in him that I'm able to get through every single day. It's because God, my Father who created me, and yes, he gave me his grace and his strength and his love and his compassion, what he allows me to go forward and to be the best of man that I can be. And I need to turn around and to share that wherever I go, whoever I'm with, and whatever I do.

Warren Mainard: That's great.

Jon Beazley: Something you said, Warren and Clark, thinking about this man who wants to be courageous in that relationship with his wife entering into prayer. I almost think that like the man needs to recognize, like, hey, I haven't set this culture yet. And so in order for me to like say, hey, let's pray together, it might even be good to say, hey, I actually have not been a good example of us praying together. And I just wanna own that. And it's almost kinda like prior to saying, hey, let's pray together. And the wife might even kind of like, now you're gonna start doing this? But hey, I have failed to take ownership here. And, but I want to change that. I want us to pray together. And there still might be a reaction, a negative reaction to that. It could be.

Clark Roberts: Yeah, yeah.

Jon Beazley: But I think, tying in with what Warren, you were saying is being so confident in your identity in Christ to say, you know what because I did fail in the past, hey, I'm forgiven of God. It's okay for my spouse to have some level of skepticism here. I'm going to continue to be humble and I'm gonna continue to press forward. And it kind of ties in with what you said earlier, Clark, the pathway to really gaining traction is just this, being brave in the midst of failure. Like, hey, I failed, or, hey, this didn't work out the way I want to, but I am pressing towards this goal. There's no alternative. Jesus is my King, and I'm gonna follow him, and I'm gonna create this culture. And it may take time, and it's...

Clark Roberts: Oh, yeah.

Jon Beazley: ...really hard. And, and I'm gonna fail again. But what does it say in Proverbs? A just man falls seven times and rises again. That kind of concept.

Clark Roberts: But I also think that that's why it's important to have one or two brothers that you can call and to pray with. I mean, you might not have a home situation where you can instantly, immediately be able to pray with your wife, but as the wife or the spouse sees this change that's starting to happen in and through you, but being able to have one or two brothers that you can call and share with going, you know what I'm trying. But it doesn't seem to be something that's being received well yet.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Clark Roberts: Even though I continue, be my support, be my rock, be my Jesus with skin on until the two of you get to this point where you can actually share and pray and be on the same page together.

Warren Mainard: That is a great word. Guys, we have covered so much beautiful content. Thank you for your wisdom and insight. We're gonna bring this to a conclusion, but as I was just reflecting on so much of what you said, I think I go back to the Bible, that probably the best story in my opinion is the story of Moses handing off the leadership to Joshua. Joshua beginning this new phase of life as the leader of Israel. And God says to him, just as he begins this new journey of leadership, "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous?"

Clark Roberts: Courageous. Yeah.

Warren Mainard: And you know, I think most of us, we would love to be able to be in a situation where every morning we could wake up and we could hear God speak to us. Those words, "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous." How much stronger would you be if you heard that from God every single day? And the good news is that we have the scriptures, we have the word of God, which means that every single day we can hear God tell us, be strong and courageous, and he can fill our sails even when we feel like we're empty on the inside. And so, as we wrap this up, I just wanna encourage each of you men who are listening to this podcast, be courageous, be a man of courage. Be a man of bravery. Do it because you love God, you love your wife, you love your children, you love your community, and those that are far from God, but do it because that is who God created you to be. And if you do, then like Clark, like Jon, you'll be able to break through barriers that you never thought you'd ever be able to break through, and you'll be able to experience life in a level that you never thought you could experience. Clark, thank you so much for your inspiration, your courage, your wisdom, and your humility. It is a blessing to learn from you and to count you a brother. Jon, thank you for being a part of this podcast with us and for your insight as wisdom as well. Everybody listening, please be sure to like, subscribe, follow, and share this podcast and YouTube video wherever you listen to it. Thank you guys so much for joining. We'll look forward to seeing you next time on the IMPACT Players Linking Shields podcast.

Jon Beazley: Thank you, guys.

Clark Roberts: Thank you. Thank you.