Warren Mainard: Hey guys, and welcome back to another edition of the Linking Shields podcast. My name is Warren Mainard. I am the host of this podcast and the National Director of IMPACT Players. So excited to have Jonathan Lewis with us on the podcast. Today, we're gonna be talking about building men up by breaking them down and so we'll kind of explain what that means. But if you're new to the Linking Shields podcast, the idea behind Linking Shields is all about saying, hey, when men come together and when they join in the right fight together, we are stronger than we could ever be on our own. And so I love finding great men who are in the fight, who are trying to pursue the same goals of IMPACT Players to be men who are inspiring other men to be great husbands, fathers, and leaders. And that is absolutely what Jonathan is about. And so, Jonathan, thank you for being a part of this podcast with us. I know we're gonna get to know you a little bit in just a moment, but for those that may not know you yet, you are the president of the Esport Financial Group. You're the author of two books, one called Deep Water, another one called More Than Money. And you are a husband, you're a father of two beautiful girls. You've got a home in Nova Scotia where you are right now, and you're preparing to make a move out to the Mount Pleasant, South Carolina area, which I'll be in that area pretty soon as well. And you have a deep, deep passion for men and for fathers. So share a little bit about kind of who you are and what you're doing, and then we'll get into your story.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, thank you, Warren. My ministry, which I think I'm probably more enthusiastic about than my business, than anybody who knows me in business knows I'm pretty enthusiastic about business, but, Fathers for Fathers is, there's no other way to put it. It's a calling. It is a passion. It is something that God had put on my heart, and it took 35 years to prepare me for it. And most of those years, where I experienced fatherlessness, the drowning of my own father in front of me, homelessness, and divorce, infidelity, trying to raise two girls in the wake of a marriage breakdown and everything that goes along with that. And a little more than a year and a half ago I was hiking, which we'll get into today, is something I love to do with a bunch of guys from the Mount Pleasant area, actually, and mostly. And and I just felt the Lord's put on me to do this ministry. And I was like, well, I'm, I've got the worst CD in the world, Lord, when it comes to setting the tone for Godly masculinity. And he's like, and that's why I'm calling you.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: So, yeah, it's just been an amazing journey with him and just seeing so many men's lives impacted and changed. And when you and I connected, I was just like, yes! And when you said you were moving Mount Pleasant, I'm like, even better, let's do some damage together. So, there's a lot of men at Mount Pleasant that need to know that they got a heavenly father that loves them, and they don't have to earn it. Yeah, so.
Warren Mainard: Amen. Amen. Well, technically I'm gonna be moving into Somerville, so we're gonna kind of...
Jonathan Lewis: Okay. We'll be rivals, we'll be neighbors.
Warren Mainard: Tag team the Charleston area and come out both sides.
Jonathan Lewis: That's right, that's right. Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Absolutely. Well...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: You know, one of the things that we talk a lot about with IMPACT Players is we believe in a principle called audacious authenticity. And for us, we just think that like, when men are willing to really get real with one another and to open up their hearts and their lives to each other, that's where the real change and transformation comes from. And...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Just in your little, you know, introduction of yourself, you opened up quite a bit like you shared about some things in your life.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And I know from talking to you previously that you have that kind of open book mentality.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: I tell guys all the time, we have a study that we're putting out this fall called Finding Your Band of Brothers.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Forging deep friendships in a shallow world. And things that I tell guys around that theme of like, how do you find your band of brothers is that there are four words that can change your life.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And those four words are very simple and not spiritual at all.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And it's simply: pick up the phone. Pick up the phone and reach out to a guy, meet up with him, and begin to get to know him.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Once you take that step, the next four words that will change your life is: tell me your story.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Tell me your story. And so I'm gonna ask you that very question, because when you ask someone, tell me your story, within 30 minutes to an hour, you can find yourself at a level of closeness and intimacy and connection and relationship with a guy that might take years to forge just by trying to, you know, get to know them over a pickleball game or walking through the church lobby or showing up at a football watching party or something like that. So, will you honor us and the men that are listening to this show by maybe just taking some time to share a little bit of your story with the guys?
Jonathan Lewis: It would be my privilege and my honor. Yeah. I am a big, big believer in transparency and vulnerability. And, I think it's what's severely lacking in a lot of Christian circles. And we don't have time for that anymore. There, we don't need posturing and bravado. We have enough of that in the world. So within Christian circles, I think men need to be told, hey, leave that stuff at the door. Drop your mask and this is where we're gonna get real with each other. And a, men in particular crave a band of brothers, whether it's you're in an inner city and you're part of a gang, or whether it's the guys you grew up with that know your worst secrets, the girl you slept with in the hay loft, or whatever it was you did, or the car that you lit on fire, or the, you know, the chocolate bar you stole at the corner store. Like, so there's something in us that craves that kind of intimacy. But then there's obviously two types of relationships. There's the one that empowers and enables sinful and self-destructive behavior where they become your wingmen and they cover up for you. Or there's the real brotherhood, which is where they call you out, challenge you, and they, they call bs. If I can be so bold to say that on your show, on you, and the latter is what we actually crave, but most of the time it's the former that we end up in. And so, from a vulnerability perspective, my story starts as a kid grew up in Canada. You know, my dad was a developer, did very well for himself. He grew up in a pretty abusive environment. His dad was an alcoholic. He was a World War II vet who fought with Montgomery, with the British. So you guys had Patton, we were part of the British contingency. And he saw a lot of act of combat, a lot. He started the war with a platoon of 42 men, and three of them survived from that original platoon. He saw almost half of his platoon gunned down by an Italian tank fighting in Italy. And, and it did something to him. He came back, he drank, and he beat my grandmother and my dad and my uncles. And then my dad became a Christian when he was 19 and had to break that cycle. And so my dad never drank. And, but he struggled. He wasn't necessarily physically abusive, but my dad was never told that he was loved, that he never experienced love from his dad. And so I grew up with a 1970s, 1980s kind of dad that celebrated John Wayne. And, you know, Clint Eastwood. And, affection between a father and son came more in the form of ribbing and sleigh of hand and maybe even the occasional backhand. And so I knew my dad loved me, but he didn't show it in a way that, you know, you might crave it. And so I longed for my dad's affection and his love. And then just shortly after my 15th birthday, and my dad was a workaholic, he had this very deep conviction leading up to Father's Day in 1991. He was going to church. He was really searching. I remember the week of Father's Day, he almost broke down and cried in the Father's Day service when the pastor, you know, challenged the dads in the audience. And the following week he said, hey, like, we're not doing our usual thing on the weekend, which in our house was baseball. I played competitive baseball for, as you guys would call it, our state. For me, it was our province. And my dad played a lot of baseball even at his age. And he said, we're not doing any baseball. Now anybody who knows what it's like to have kids in high performing competitive sports, certainly in America, you don't call the coach on Saturday and say that your son's not gonna be there for the double header on Sunday against like your biggest rival from the next state over. And my dad did that. And we actually did what a lot of Eastern Canadians do. We went to the beach with our scuba gear, and the plan was to spend the day in June. This was June 23rd, 1991 diving, skin diving, free diving. And now bear in mind it's not Florida or South Carolina, we're talking about Nova Scotia, the Northeast. So even in June, the water is in the mid fifties. And so you're wearing eight millimeter suits and it's cold. But long and short of it, after the second dive, my mom said she didn't wanna dive again. My dad wanted to go, I went with him, but I skin dive, which means wearing weights and diving down with him. Admittedly, I was grabbing his octopus and breathing from his, his tag to stay down longer. He would be down 15, 20, 25 feet. And we were spearheading flounder for dinner to bring home with us. And well, we were also grabbing the occasional lobster too, while we're at it, which up here is a big no-no. But, and he got into trouble. And long story short, I ended up dragging my dad to the beach. And, although I was able to get him to the beach, I wasn't able to save my dad. And I watched my dad take his last breath. I watched the look in his eyes as life faded from his body. And I was maybe 140 pounds soaking wet and had just turned 15. And went through something very traumatic that some people never go through in their entire life. But this was like in a very formative time in my life as a young man, and it was my dad. And so very quickly I had to live with the fallout and the guilt of not only was I fatherless, but it was because I failed to save my own father. Like, it wasn't just a tragic event, it was a tragic event that I was intimately involved with. And you can imagine my prayer life 'cause we were, I would call us cultural Christians. We were a Pentecostal family, definitely knew how to, you know, swing from the chandeliers on Sunday, but probably not enough meat on the bone in terms of that expository teaching. So I didn't really understand where God was in this. And I was searching for that. And I remember many times saying, okay, if it was my, if it was the time for my dad to go, I understand that, but why put me through that? Like, why have me lived through the trauma of what I cannot escape? Like this is a recurring nightmare into my 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th year of life. And so you can imagine the trajectory that that can knock a kid's life into. And couple that with my dad was the primary income earner. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. So the economic fall out for our family was devastating. And I found myself couch surfing, living in my car. My mom remarried to a stepdad that, although I have a great relationship with him now, made it very clear that I did not have a place in our home when I was 16, 17, 18. So it just spiraled for me where I felt like I had no self-worth, no one loved me. God clearly didn't love me or my family, and had abandoned me. And so it set me on a trajectory on life where the attitude I took on was, I don't need God. And if it's meant to be, it's up to me.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And I'm not gonna give anybody the opportunity to abandon me or hurt me. So I will always keep people at arm's length. And you can imagine what that created, it created a guy who with my charisma and my power of woo, tremendous success in business and in every area of my life, but not any depth of relationships with anybody including, my high school sweetheart, my wife. No one was allowed in.
Warren Mainard: Right, right.
Jonathan Lewis: Like, you wanna talk about transparency?
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: It was the antithesis of transparency. Like, not only did I put on a false bravado and a mask, but it was thought out, deliberate, calculated, and it was an act of self-defense. It was armor and it served me well, but it left me very empty and alone, very empty and alone. And so that led to more broken relationships because no one could connect with me. The worst of which was when my spouse decided that she didn't wanna be married, and I had a two and a 3-year-old. And I came home from where I just established a new office in Toronto, and it was evident that my marriage was over because she was gone. And so were the kids.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: And 30 years old at this point.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. Can I step in for just a moment?
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. Go for it.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. I mean, well, this is literally, I'm learning this as I'm listening to this story right now. So, I'm processing with you, and we did a podcast last month with a guest named Clint Hatton, who lost his son at 19 or 17 years old.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And just processing what that pain was like. And now hearing the inverse of a son losing his dad, like in his arms is just unfathomable, you know? And so, in that season that you were in, you know, you talked about kind of being cultural Christians, you know, your dad, it sounded like he was trying to kind of like, do something to take a step to be a better dad.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: To be more engaged. You know?
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: The baseball game.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: He's like, no. I mean, it kind of like a, almost like a promise keepers kind of a moment.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: And it backfires.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. And it, and we ended up with a hearse. Yeah.
Warren Mainard: So, you know, where were you at spiritually in that moment? Were you like viscerally angry towards God, or was that...
Jonathan Lewis: Not in that moment,
Warren Mainard: That mask, did you put on a Christian mask, but internally you disconnected?
Jonathan Lewis: No. Yeah, we call it quiet resignment. No, at first, I ran to the Lord, like wanting answers. I can remember the day after my dad died, I tried to open to the Psalms, you know, open in the middle of the Bible. I knew that, I knew enough to know that.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: I ended up with Lamentations.
Warren Mainard: Oh.
Jonathan Lewis: So you don't have to go too far to the right to miss Psalms and get Lamentations. And I ended up with Lamentations three. And and I'm not a big believer that, you know, things are that random, but in this case, God was ordering...
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: ...that Bible. And I opened the Lamentations 3:31-33, which is actually right in the middle of Lamentations 3. And if you read Lamentations 3 entirely, it's pretty poignant. And it says, "For God does not willingly cast off the children of men. And though he brings grief, he will show compassion. So great is his unfailing love."
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: And I wept. I'm 15 years old, my dad's been dead for less than 12 hours. And if you read all of Lamentations, the first 30 verses before 31 is calamity. And it's just Jeremiah just absolutely crying out. And then from 33 on it's blessing, promise, restoration, and I didn't realize it at the time, but it was like, literally God gave me a passage in the Bible that few people would ever read that would basically characterize my entire life.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: And that was 33 years ago, Warren. And if you wanna, if you want my testimony, read Lamentations 3.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: It's right there. And so, yeah. By the time I was 19, 20 I was in the Canadian Armed Forces. Somehow, by the grace of God did not fall into drugs or any self-destructive behavior. But I did fall into the destructive behavior of work. I discovered that work was a great way to cope with pain and you got rewarded for it in more ways than just not having to deal with the pain. You got paid. And so, I joined the forces. I ended up in the Rocky Mountains planting trees for two years. Lived in a tent for eight months in Western Canada, discovered you don't feel so homeless when everybody else is living in a tent with you. So it's kinda like, how do you feel slim? Hang out with people that are fatter than you. Well, how do you not feel so homeless? Hang out with more homeless people.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: So then you have a community. So a tree planters camp became my refugee camp as a guy who just wanted to run from God. And I remember being in the mountains, this is an oxymoron, but I was singing, the old hymn, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. There's just something about that name." So I'm thousands of miles away from humanity up in the Rocky Mountains towards Alaska. I'm humming, even though I didn't pick up on it, that hymn. And at the same time, I can remember waving my fist at heaven saying, "I don't know if you're there or not, but if you are, leave me alone 'cause you've never done anything for me." And that started a journey, a prodigal son, a Luke 15 journey where I walked away from God.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And the fallout from 19, age 19 to age 30 was disastrous. From a CV perspective, you wouldn't think so, I had tremendous success in business. I went from being homeless to being a millionaire in what takes most people the time to pay for a car. And, but I was an empty vessel.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: And I knew it. I knew I was running from God. I could not reconcile where he was in the storms. And boy, I could preach a whole sermon if we had time today about him walking through the storms with us and why they're suffering in the world. How many guys say, well, why, if there's a God, why does he allow suffering? Well, maybe that could be our second interview 'cause I can answer that for you. But, you know, when I look at how our father sees us as men, as he sees us, like there's irrefutable truths about God. One is he loves his creation. And in his creation, he gave us free will. And we are what he loves more than anything out of his creation. And he has done everything he can to come and get us from a fallen world that we chose. And that's hard to understand, but Adam, God had two sons. One was perfect, and the other not so perfect.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Right?
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: So guys, if you got kids and you're struggling, even the creator of the universe is batting 500. Right?
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: Adam chose to reject God.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And so we live in this broken environment, right. That he loves us and he is going to fix, but it'll be in his time and in the meantime, he's gonna walk through the storms with us, but the storms are here. And I did not recognize that as a young man. I didn't recognize that. And the funny thing is, I didn't have any mature Christian man around me to simply explain it to me.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And I think, oh my gosh, like more than a decade of my life wasted running from God, because somebody didn't just stop me on the side of the road and say, "Brother, let me seriously, let me have a sit down with you." Right?
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: So guys, if there's a young guy out there in your life that you know is running, like grab hold of him, and as you say, what, Warren? Tell me your story.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Listen to his story.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And then speak truth into his life, right?
Warren Mainard: You're trying to learn how to become a man without a father.
Jonathan Lewis: Without anybody.
Warren Mainard: And any other men in your life to give you any kind of a roadmap.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: And so, you know, that's in many ways, that's what IMPACT Players and I know Fathers For Fathers is all about like...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: We created a study called The Marks of Manhood.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And guys at any age can take it and have taken it. But really, those guys that are like 20 to 35, those are the ones that oftentimes are the ones that are like, I don't even know what healthy masculinity or manhood...
Jonathan Lewis: No, I know.
Warren Mainard... even looks like, and...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...how am I then supposed to like, raise a son or, you know...
Jonathan Lewis: Be a husband.
Warren Mainard: ...be a husband or just...
Jonathan Lewis: Be a father, raise kids, like...
Warren Mainard: Yeah, or like you said...
Jonathan Lewis: Hold down a job!
Warren Mainard: They've succeeded at something, whether it's their career or sports or video games or popularity.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: But then they realized that they were keeping the wrong scorecard, so let's...
Jonathan Lewis: Oh, totally. They had the ladder against the wrong wall the whole time.
Warren Mainard: Exactly. Yeah. So let's go back to your story. You kind of were that guy that was succeeding, but...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. On paper.
Warren Mainard: But at home, and your wife, you know, says it's over.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: And now what happened?
Jonathan Lewis: So, yeah. I mean, I remember, I would say I got saved. I mean, obviously this is where the Pentecostals and everybody Baptist once saved, always saved. But I had my coming to Jesus moment in the summer of 2010. And at that point, I didn't even know my wife was, like exiting the marriage, you know, engaged in an extracurricular relationship. Like, none of that even was on my radar. I just had started going to this local church that one of my best friends growing up invited me to. And I just remember sitting at the back of the church and hearing this guy preach, and he just blew me away. And so I kept going.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: I just kept going. And then I started to take the kids to nursery, and I invited her. And she even came a few times. And, but for me, I had like a moment of truth, like, I'll never forget it. We have about eight acres here, and I have an apple orchard now, but at the time, I just had a field and I was over in the field on a Sunday morning at 10:00 AM drinking a Coors Light, digging a hole to put apple trees in. And, you know, every hole got an empty can of Coors Light, and then the apple tree went in on top of it. So every apple tree over there has a um, aluminum can of Coors light under it. But, and I just started to cry. I can't even explain it. I maybe just started reading my Bible again. Maybe I'd listened to a few sermons. I think someone had given me, Rick Warren's book, it's 'A Purpose Driven Life'.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Yes, he had, they had, I'd read that, but like, I was just, this was all new to me, really truly new to me. And I just remember crying. And then, and just, now I know it to be the Spirit, but I just felt the Holy Spirit just wash over me. So I'm by myself on a Sunday morning drinking beer. Like, dude, this isn't something you put in a postcard. And I just remember crying and saying, "Lord, everybody wants to be me except me. And, I'm so lonely. And, if you are real, if you're really there, if you were there in the water, if there's some purpose to this, I don't deserve your love, but if you're there and you're willing, reveal yourself to me. Show me, show me that you're real." And he did. The next day, I had a, just something right out of a movie, kind of impact where he just met me and he never stopped meeting me every day since. And that was 14 years ago, 14 years and two months. And, now when someone says, what's your idea of hell? I was talking to a buddy of mine about this two days ago, I said, "My idea of hell would be being separated from my father, my heavenly father."
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: Because I can't imagine going a day or two without him. And there are days where I don't feel his presence.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And I have felt his presence for 14 years and two months. And it is the warmest, most reassuring feeling to know that the creator of the universe...
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: ...is stepped in to be a father to the fatherless, which is by the way, a fulfillment of scripture. And here's what is interesting, and it's notable. I did have men parachute into my life all through those years, all the way till that moment, who were men of God who breathed truth into my life and fulfilled scripture and were a father to the fatherless. And none of them, every one of 'em was a businessman and a born again believer who I would look up to. And God knew that. And I looked up to them in business, so I tolerated their faith.
Warren Mainard: Yes.
Jonathan Lewis: So yeah, it was a powerful moment. And, I remember I did the book 'The Love Dare' by the Kendrick brothers thinking, okay, I'll save my marriage. I did it four times, 160 days. Here's what I can tell you. It didn't save my marriage, but it saved me. And it made me a truly selfless man who recognizes what godly masculinity is in the context of marriage. And then God, by His grace sent me, my wife Sara, into my life, and after my divorce, and I had the privilege of leading her to Christ, seeing her blossom into a believer as well. And that was 11 years now coming up on, we're in our 11th year marriage. And we got married in 2014. This is my wedding ring, March 12th, 2014. And we have done this journey together where I have been taught by my heavenly Father how to truly honor my wife as the most important relationship that we have down here, apart from him. And the two of us will say all the time, it's him, our marriage, and everybody else. And she's been an amazing spiritual mother, and an amazing stepmom to Madeline and Clara, our two girls that she has had the privilege of influencing in a powerful, powerful way.
Warren Mainard: Wow, wow.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: You know, I just, I think about that moment when you were 19 years old out on the mountains in northern Canada, and essentially what you were saying to God was, "God, you don't deserve my love."
Jonathan Lewis: I've never heard anybody say that. And that's powerful. Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Eleven years later, you found yourself saying, "God, I don't deserve your love."
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And that was the moment of salvation. I mean...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...whether or not you were saved before. You know, that's a theological question, but the moment where Christ became your life and...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. Yeah.
Warren Mainard: You know, I think, you know, without trying to over-spiritualize or metaphor this to death, but like this theme that we kind of introduced for today of breaking men down in order to build them back up...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...the Prodigal son had to be broken down...
Jonathan Lewis: All the way.
Warren Mainard: ...in order for the father to fully restore him into the relationship that the father always desired, and that the son always needed.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And so the path that you went through is absolutely horrific and just, you know, unfathomable.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And yet it was the necessary gauntlet that was required for you to become the...
Jonathan Lewis: I know
Warren Mainard: ...vessel of God's love that you are today.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. And I'm such a strong-willed, determined, tenacious person. I think it was the only way God was going to really teach me how to understand his grace. And it's scandalous, it's costly, it's free, and it was the only way that I would be humble enough to have grace for others.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And you know, it's funny, my leadership team and I talked about that in a meeting this morning. We've had a business deal go very badly this week, that just came to a grinding stop. And we all feel very relieved about it because we actually knew since January that we were unequally yoked. And we couldn't quite pinpoint it, but we know now. And we were just talking about all the positives that come from it, and they said, "We can't believe the grace that you showed to this individual." And I said, well, I don't find it hard, and, and let's be clear in my flesh. I want to get on a plane, fly over there and pop 'em in the head.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: That's my flesh. And I would actually do that in my flesh, but I don't, I am not my own. I'm bought and paid for, I am a slave to Christ. So it doesn't matter what I would do, it's what would he have me do? And what he would have me do is think transcendent and eternally with this individual and I standing shoulder to shoulder and eternity together. So then the only question is, how do I respond to this individual with that as the outcome in mind? And so, as men, we are called to be so submitted to God's authority to be slaves to Christ. Like it, the Hebrew Greek translation is "well done by good and faithful slave." We love to say servant, but it's slave.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And you have to want to long to hear those words. Like I have long since gotten to the point where I'm like, success for me is not workspace. It's knowing my heart is so orientated towards God. Psalm 51, David. Right. I love when he says, "You will not despise a contrite and broken heart."
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: Right. That's the gift that we give our father.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And I wanna stand before Christ and I wanna hear him. I wanna feel him wrap his arms around me and say, "Jonathan, oh well done. Your heart's is orientated towards me."
Warren Mainard: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well done.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: What's so amazing about the scriptures is you think about the Father's blessing over Christ that...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...that this is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased.
Jonathan Lewis: Well pleased.
Warren Mainard: He said that before Jesus had even begun his ministry.
Jonathan Lewis: Right.
Warren Mainard: And he...
Jonathan Lewis: Right. It's not the works, because Jesus's heart was so evident.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Right. Like when he said to John, "It's good that you do this."
Warren Mainard: Yeah, right.
Jonathan Lewis: "Baptize me." It wasn't anything other than a heart's orientation and submission to God's authority, right.
Warren Mainard: Well, you know, one of the things that you talked about there just a moment ago as a business deal that went poorly and the desire to try to get even, and the scriptures say, "'Vengeance is mine,' thus sayeth the Lord." And you know, I am reminded of a story that my mom told me, after my dad had passed away, but before...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...before she passed away.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And she said, "You don't remember this, but when you were just a little boy, your dad went through a season of about two years of deep depression." And essentially what happened was, he was a business partner with a guy that he considered to be his best friend, and that business partner basically sold the business out from underneath them and left my dad high and dry.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And for the next two years, my dad would just go into his office at home, lock the door behind him and do nothing. Like, he literally just stewed and, you know...
Jonathan Lewis: Wow.
Warren Mainard: ...just simmer in self-pity for two years. My mom didn't know what to do. People didn't talk about mental health back in the seventies, and he didn't talk to anybody about it. He didn't, you know, get any help with it. And then ultimately, somehow he kind of shook it off and then returned to being an engaged dad, an engaged husband and all that.
Jonathan Lewis: Right, right.
Warren Mainard: But that was two years of his life that was lost.
Jonathan Lewis: Which is interesting 'cause I, whenever my wife and I travel wherever we go, we're checking to the hotel or pulling up, you know, there's always, I always take note of the young people working like I'm, I have to admit I'm not young anymore, even though I feel like it.
Warren Mainard: Youthful.
Jonathan Lewis: And you know, they're bouncing around and they're doing their jobs, and once I feel comfortable and I've told them a couple of good dad jokes, and by good, I mean by my standards.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And Sara's like, here he goes, and I say, "Guys, here's the riddle for you. What is the one thing that you have as much as I have, and you can do whatever you want with it, but you only have so much of it and you're running out of it every day?" And I leave it with them. And there's always the smart one, you know, like the second day or the third day as I'm walking by, he'll holler out "Time!"
Warren Mainard: Yep.
Jonathan Lewis: And you know, if you think about it, the real tragedy was that your dad wasted two years of God given time that he could use for something else. You know, John Newton, when he was mentoring a young, William Wilberforce. His biggest regret, if you read the book, 'Amazing Grace' by Eric Metaxas, is all the time that he wasted as a slave ship captain.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And how he wanted to make good with the time that he had left to glorify the Lord. And, you know, like I've studied John Newton, like, one thing a lot of people don't realize is he was press-ganged at 13 into serving on a slave ship. It's not like he chose to be a slave ship captain, right.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: He knew nothing else. He grew up extremely poor, was grabbed off the streets of Plymouth, thrown onto a slave ship departing for the Ivory Coast, and then grew up surviving by his wit, you know, killing if need be. And then, you know, you think, okay, well, where was God and all that? And yet, even now on Sundays, Christians will gather around and sing to a African slave chant the words "Amazing Grace..."
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: "...how sweet the sound." And I just think how God can take any story, and I would argue, is actually in the entire tapestry of the story.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And the only thing that we need to do with that free will that he's given us is choose to surrender.
Warren Mainard: Absolutely.
Jonathan Lewis: And then even the storm becomes poetry.
Warren Mainard: Absolutely.
Jonathan Lewis: And my life is not short of storms. If I told you just the last 30 days of my life, you'd be like, come on. I mean, buildings that have been flooded, had a car drive into one of my buildings right into the front of the building this week, business deal's gone bad, lawyers, you know for this or that, just sort of going through life and the storms just rage all around. And the whole time it's like, Lord, how would you have me respond to this situation? How do I, if I respond with grace, how do I be your representative in the face of an angry world?
Warren Mainard: Right, right.
Jonathan Lewis: Right. And...
Warren Mainard: That's, I mean, that's why grace is so amazing, right? Because like God gives you that ability to remain composed in Christ and not be reactive and vengeful and all those kind of things. And that's not something that you can take credit for. That's...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah. I would argue that I'm not even composed. It's just I, I'm like, and then it's like, what flows out of the cup is him.
Warren Mainard: Right, yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Right? Because the cup is just a fractured old teacup that's glued back together.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: Right? The vessel is just a train wreck, but it's just the, it's the Spirit that has to flow through that broken vessel. And, yeah. Like I just think about one situation after another where I'm just like, Lord, I, I'm just a raging angry redhead if I'm left to my own devices in every situation. So you, like, you may, like, I may as well just turn into some kind of a robot all day long because I, there's not one point where I'm gonna respond properly.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: And he knows that. Like, and you think about David, when he was left to his own devices, what a train wreck. The guy is a murderer, adulterer, a liar, a thief. You know, some drunk guy, like ticks him off. He's like, that's it, we're going in and killing everybody like that. I mean, it took a godly woman with restraint to come out and head him off to stop him from slaughtering an entire household, you know, like, and yet he was a man after God's own heart. Well, it certainly wasn't because of his flesh, it was because of his yieldedness to God's authority over his life and his contrition every time he messed up.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: Right? And I love that about David.
Warren Mainard: Well, as we kind of wrap this up, I wanna just ask you to share quickly about this theme of, you know, breaking men down to build them back up.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: And there's a story that you mentioned. You talked about John Newton and the song Amazing Grace. I remember reading, AW Tozer book a few years ago. And, you know, he of course, he wrote this in the 1960s, and so he would just turn over in his grave to see what churches are doing today.
Jonathan Lewis: Oh, yeah.
Warren Mainard: But he talked about how he noticed that in some churches, they had removed the word 'wretch' from the song Amazing Grace.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: So instead of saying "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me."
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: They changed it to say, "that saved a one like me."
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, I know.
Warren Mainard: And the point that he makes is that, you know, if you are not willing to see yourself as a wretch, as someone who is completely and desperately in need of God's amazing grace, that you're not just a pretty good guy, but you are...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...the enemy of the cross and...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...void of any goodness apart from God, then...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...you cannot receive that grace And on a practical level...
Jonathan Lewis: You won't even get it. You won't get how scandalous the grace is.
Warren Mainard: You've got to be broken down.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: You need to recognize that you're a wretch.
Warren Mainard: Exactly. So you've gotta be broken down.
Jonathan Lewis: Not a wreck.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And not a one, but a wretch, a wretched person who left their own devices is self-destructive and will destroy everything around them.
Warren Mainard: Exactly.
Jonathan Lewis: And, you know, yeah. So yeah, breaking down and building up, I mean, I think, you know, losing my dad broke me down. Joining the Army, I mean, my military experience was all about breaking you down and then instilling in you, the way the military does it, and then building you up and enabling and empowering you to do a specific job under authority. Wonderful experience, wonderful experience. I think in North America, we should have, like a lot of other countries, one year required military training and service for all of our young people. So if I'm running for politics, watch out. I think one year service would do wonders for the narcissistic self-absorbed, selfish, environment that we are increasingly finding ourselves in. That said, I think when I was tree planting, it broke me down. A lot in life, broke me down. But with Fathers For Fathers, it's interesting. I was on a hike with other men for four days in North Carolina with the idea of really straining them. Now there's this hike. It's, it actually was Seacoast Church in Mount Pleasant. And they do an amazing job of this ministry, by the way, like lights out amazing. Some 200 guys, groups of 10, different levels of fitness, different trails, different length. I was totally impressed. And I participated with a group and, I have to admit, I was like going through a very difficult season with my teenage daughters. And I went out there like to cry out with God for me, and like, Lord, I don't know how to get through this. And, the last day I didn't realize how close we were to the cars and we're walking, and I started to grumble and I was grumbling like, Lord, I came out here to meet with you with the hopes that you would reassure me of, you know, the fact that you're steadfast and I'm in the storm, and I get that, but you're gonna deliver me through this difficult season, Sara and I with these kids. And I was really upset. And he literally, I could feel the spirits of John, like, I am with you, and you already know that, so you don't need me to reassure you that. But there's all these other guys out here this weekend that you've been been ministering to, and they don't know that. And that's why you're here. You're here to minister, not cry about your limp, but to help them recognize that their limp is actually also a blessing. And I started to cry and my wife and I were heading to Arizona for the Generous Giving conference. And so I had a couple days to recoup and convalescence. And on the flight I was writing in my journal, which I've got two journals right here, one's my work journal, one's my personal journal, they're always within arm's reach. And I was writing in my journal, and I wrote 14 pages, and it was an entire business plan, for me being a business guy, But it was a download from the Holy Spirit for Fathership to Fathers. And the whole idea was you need to keep hiking for men and you need to take how I have in life used situations to break you down, to build you up. You need to get the men away from the storms, from the calamities, from the distractions of life, from these things. And you need to get them out where they're with me and only me like this. And I didn't fully understand what he was downloading, but Fathers For Fathers was birthed. Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. But I'd never had planned on doing any kind of hiking or anything with Fathers For Fathers. I was like, as you guys, I'm building an immersive study. I'm doing podcasts, really cool stuff for Father's Day and all kinds of ministry stuff. And this past year, I have not taken any vacation time. I was like, literally an entire year, like Christmas Eve, Christmas day, that's it. But like, no time off. And, there's a really difficult hike here in Northwestern Nova Scotia. It's literally an area of the coastline where no one has ever lived. There's no habitation, no one's ever been there. There's no roads, there's no paths. It's 50, 60 miles of just vacant coastline and some of the roughest, roughest coastline, mountainous coastline you could possibly try and traverse. And I heard that there's a hike that you can do through there, if you call it that only a few people have done, that's about five days. And I wanted to do it. And because our life is now increasingly has us far flung, and I'm not getting the time here to be able to do something like that. So I said to Sara, I'm booking this time, so I booked the time and I was gonna solo hike this. Which like, even that is not something most people do. So I've got like the GPS, the inReach, the VHF, you know, emergency helicopter lift, all this kind of stuff planned. Like I've put a lot of work into this. And she's like, are you sure? Like, honey, like you're 48 and I know like you've done stuff this like your whole life, but like this is serious mountaineering. Like the weather up there changes like that, it can snow in July. I'm like, no, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'll be fine. I can text you with the inReach if I'm in trouble. And so anyway, I tell this to my buddy in Charleston, who I did that hike in North Carolina with, he's like, well, can I come? I'm like, sure. And he is like, can my Kalen come, my 16-year-old son? I'm like, sure. And my buddy in Mexico's like, well, can I come? I'm like, okay. And then he says, well, can my son over in London fly over and join us? I'm like, sure. And then a guy in Maine, and then some guys from here. And next thing I know, I got 14 guys that wanna come with me on this hike. We ended up with eight or nine guys and there were several father son teams. And before you and I got recording, I was telling you about this. One of the fathers who I've been sharing the Gospel with since last November is really impacted by it. And him and his son had been alienated and estranged for a number of years. They reconnected. They hadn't seen each other for two years. And that was the father from Mexico and the son coming from London, England. And they flew in, and this is the two of them on a 3000 foot mountain at the very summit after two days of being broken down and some hardcore climbing and hiking.
And they, unbeknownst to them, I had them write letters to each other. And I did this for all the guys on the mountain, two or three letters each from loved ones. These two read their letters from each other, and I could see them all starting to cry. And I got my phone out really quick and I just got that photo in time and I thought, okay, I get it, Lord. I get it. And then my other buddy, you know, sends this card, which ironically, I just opened this this morning 'cause we've been away for two weeks, and I'm gonna read it to you guys. It says, "Dear Jonathan and Sara, I wanted to send this quick note to thank you both again for absolutely all you did to provide the opportunity Kalen and I enjoyed in your home and the beautiful country you live in. There are no words to describe what happened on the sea wall mountain. I was personally stretched to new levels in many ways. And however, the time spent doing the hike with Kalen was priceless. And I can't thank you enough. Our relationship will never be the same in my eyes. And that is a very good thing for us as father and son." And his son was 16, he was the youngest guy in the group. "I truly wish I could find the words to actually state my sincerest gratitude. You are the best. Thank you, Ed and Kalen." And this is a father son team that also has had challenges. And it was like the Lord was saying, Jonathan, I called you to do this ministry on a hike. Of course, I want you to take other men into my creation and spend time with them with me. And it was funny, the very next day, you know, I had done a lifeline with them on the way up in the car, where every guy did his top five and his lowest five events in his life. And we talked about it, and, and they picked up a rock. And, you know, day three, they stand over this most mesmerizing bluff, 150 feet over the ocean with whales down below, and they, you know, throw the rock into the ocean and leave that wound that we identified, you know, at the start of the hike, in Northwestern Nova Scotia. And there's wild horses. And, you know, it's like you are in God's creation and, you know, very few human eyes have even set foot in this area. And I don't know how to describe how the Holy Spirit was just absolutely present. And I mean, this was bathed in prayer weeks before by multiple people. And so, you know, another guy that morning was just blubbering. He couldn't even talk as he shared his story and threw his rock into the sea. And he's actually coming on the hike again. So I'm taking a whole 'nother group of guys in two weeks from today. So September 19th through the 21st up there, it's probably the last chance where we have a chance at good weather. Although people do this sometimes in the winter, I don't know how I couldn't, but I got another group of guys going and this guy is coming again because he's like, I left some stuff unfinished out there on the mountain. So, you know, I think for men, we need to be doing something. It needs to be hard. We can't just sit around and talk until we're physically tired enough that we're at a place where we'll let our guard down. And where we've dropped the false bravado and gotten real with each other. And what I notice is, is day one guys are getting to know each other and there's vulnerability. But by day three, this is like, these guys still text each other on the text thread that I set up now. And that's two months later. And it's like relationships get forged and a community of men have gone through something like military experience, right? Like, I'm still in contact with guys I did my basic training with 28 years ago.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. Wow.
Jonathan Lewis: Right? Like, you remember their names Kavanaugh, Abood 'cause like, in the armed forces, it's just last names, right? And like there's something galvanizing about being in pain together, and at the same time having this encounter that's so powerful. And so yeah, it's something that I didn't see coming. But, we've got another one planned now for Chattanooga, right in the northwestern border of Georgia this winter. Right after Christmas, we're got a group of guys that we're gonna go and do the very southern tip of the Appalachian Trail. But I said to them, we're not doing the Appalachian Trail. We're gonna do Nova Scotia, New Scotland bush whacking, parallel to the trail. So they're like, okay. But yeah, I'm just looking forward to it. Looking forward to continuing to pour into guys and let them know most importantly that they got a heavenly Father that absolutely longs to come alongside them and do life with them.
Warren Mainard: Wow. Amazing story, Jonathan. And I absolutely just love your heart. I love the message that you're putting out there.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And a world that idolizes comfort and...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...you know, ease. I think that a lot of the ills that we're seeing in our world today could be solved by men learning how to do hard things and...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...realizing that they're stronger than they think they are. And you know, even as I dropped my son off to college a few days ago, there's a part of that where I'm like, Hey, you're going to experience some hard things in college and that's good. Don't reject it.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Don't run from it. Like...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...you grow through these things, if you will embrace the struggle.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And certainly no one wants to walk through tragedy like what you've described, but...
Jonathan Lewis: No.
Warren Mainard: ...even the tragedy, even the pain can become beautiful when our hearts are set to receive what God is trying to teach us through that. And...
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: I just think, I just, I know this, Jonathan, I've got, I gotta have you back on the podcast. I gotta spend more time with you. So...
Jonathan Lewis: You gotta come to Chattanooga and come hiking with me when you get to Charleston.
Warren Mainard: Hey, send me the invitation, send me the invitation, and maybe I can bring my son with me.
Jonathan Lewis: I will.
Warren Mainard: But how can guys kind of learn more about Fathers For Fathers and how can they be in touch with you if they're inspired by what you shared today?
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, sure. I mean, you can email me directly at my Fathers For Fathers email which is on our website. I can't remember exactly what it is. I don't make myself hard to, to get ahold of. There's no ego driving the bus here. This is about connecting with guys. I had a phone call today with a guy, that another guy I helped, connected us with by text. And it was at like 11:25. And the guy's like, I need to talk to you. Like my marriage is over. We're going to the lawyer next Tuesday. I said, great, gimme five minutes. And, I hopped on the phone with him for 40 minutes and just loved and poured into him. So I, I'm not a pastor, I don't have any pastoral training. What I am is a brother in Christ who, I would say is a veteran in the trenches of pain and difficulty and setbacks. And so like any veteran, I just wanna come alongside other guys and let them know, look like you can do this. And like one of the things that we're working on with Fathers For Fathers as a part of our immersive study is, Hey, life is a football field. And guess what? You're on it. And you're not allowed to leave. You have to play.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Jonathan Lewis: So there's this mindset with guys of, I just can't do it. It's like, no, like, it's kind of like this hike. When you're halfway through the hike, there's only one way to get outta there, and it's by helicopter. So you either keep going or you gotta dig deep and get your credit card. So it's, I really feel like with the Lord and with life guys, we wanna cop out. And as a veteran, what I'm here to do is just say, Hey man, don't cop out. You're actually robbing yourself when you're in those difficult situations of the real opportunity for God to grow your character and pour the fruits of the Spirit into you. Long suffering, like the ability to persevere and love and show grace. And you know that Matthew 13:44, the treasure in a field that the guy buries and goes and sells everything he has. Hey, I hate to break it to you, but what he's buying is the field of pain and hardship and character building and long suffering, and the fruits of the Spirit and Galatians and Romans that it talks about. Like, don't run away from that, right?
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: As John Piper says, "This momentary suffering is for eternal glory."
Warren Mainard: Right.
Jonathan Lewis: And so yeah, you can reach out to me any way you want. I'm on every kind of social media handle. We're on, Instagram with Fathers For Father, Facebook. Like, if I don't personally see the message, one of my people will, and they will get it to me. You can call me or text me. My cell number is 1902-402-3817. That is Jonathan's cell. Call me, text me. I am in the trenches with you and I'm doing battle the same as you are trying to survive this broken old world. And, as Paul put it, run the race and spur you along to do the same. So check out our website. There's so many good ministries for men. You know, Warren, I just love your heart. I love what you guys are doing and just, privilege to be here with you today and shoot the breeze on this stuff and land the plane on some good things for men
Warren Mainard: Without a doubt. And I love what you just said about, Hey, we're all on the field. We're all in the game. So if you're gonna be in the game, why not be an IMPACT Player? Why not?
Jonathan Lewis: Amen!
Warren Mainard: Why not be somebody that makes a difference, not only in your life, but for your wife, your family, your community, your workplace, your church, your world. That's what we're all about. So, yeah. Jonathan, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. I really look forward to getting to know you better and linking...
Jonathan Lewis: Likewise.
Warren Mainard: ...you more so in the future. But for all of our listeners, thank you for being a part of this IMPACT Players community.
Jonathan Lewis: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: You can always find out more about IMPACT Players by joining us at impactplayers.org. And let us know how we can serve you, whether that's ministering to you on a personal level, helping you to minister to other men, starting IMPACT Players cohorts, or chapters wherever you are, we're here to help you make an impact.
Jonathan Lewis: Amen.
Warren Mainard: Thank you, guys. God bless. We'll catch you next time.
Jonathan Lewis: Amen.
