Warren Mainard: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Linking Shields podcast. My name is Warren Mainard. I am the National Director of IMPACT Players. IMPACT players is all about inspiring men to be great husbands, fathers and leaders by equipping them to thrive in the relationships that matter most. And with that in mind, I am so glad to have, my guest for today's episode of Linking Shields, Chris Bolinger. You're going to get a chance to hear Chris's story and, how he has been able to make a huge impact in the lives of men through, some of his devotionals and other leadership. But today, we're going be talking about finding strength, courage, and encouragement in the everyday moments of life. And I know, Chris, that this is something that I desperately need, because even with all of the good things that I get to enjoy in my life, there are days where I get discouraged. There are days when I feel weak. There are days where I just, I'll be honest, some days I just don't want to get out of bed. But, I've got to do it, you know? And so we're going to talk about that a little bit. But, for those of you that don't know Chris yet, Chris describes himself as an average Joe. I don't quite believe that, Chris, but...
Chris Bolinger: You don't trust me.
Warren Mainard: I like your humility. But, you've experienced your own series of failures and tremendous success and breakthroughs. And so we're going to talk a little bit about what you've learned through that journey. But, Chris, maybe share a little bit about yourself and then we'll dive into your story for a few minutes.
Chris Bolinger: Sure, Warren, that sounds good. I was born in Akron, Ohio. Go Zips, University of Akron Zips. But my dad lost his job when I was about two. So there are dreams of, they wanted to be in the Akron area forever. That was their hometown, and they just wanted to stay there forever. But we actually embarked on this odyssey of him changing jobs every couple of years. So I spent some time in Wisconsin. I spent a lot of time in central Ohio, but I've always kind of considered myself a Northeast Ohio guy. I think part of that is because my dad was a rabid Cleveland sports fan.
Warren Maianrd: Okay. Wow.
Chris Bolinger: Back when Cleveland sports teams were good, right? I mean, before I was born, the Browns used to win all the time, you know? So that's really what ties me philosophically in Northeast Ohio is that I'm a diehard Cleveland sports fan, which means I'm disappointed most of the time.
Warren Mainard: Hey, yeah. As a Seattle Mariners fan, I can understand that.
Chris Bolinger: Oh, yeah.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah, the Indians beat the Mariners a couple key series back in the 90s when they were really good, but they never won the whole thing. So I'm still waiting for... the only the only Cleveland championship in my lifetime has been the, the Cavs winning it in 2016, which was really miraculous. I mean, I don't know how they ever beat Golden State in that series.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: It was unbelievable. So I grew up in a Christian home. We always went to church on Sunday mornings, but didn't really do a lot during the week. I mean, we were Christians, but I didn't really apply my faith a whole lot. Actually questioned my faith in my 20s. And this is a God story real quickly. But I just, I couldn't understand how Jesus's death on the cross saved me. I mean, I had said it my whole life, but I in my mind, I couldn't pull it together. And I'm an engineer by trade. And kind of the way my mind works is I want to figure stuff out and I couldn't. I couldn't piece it together. So, I just so happened to be directed by a friend to a church in the DC, I was up in the DC area. She said go to their young adult Sunday school class. It's really good. And you'll meet a lot of great people. Went there the next Sunday. They just so happened to be studying Romans. They just so happened to be in Romans three the day that I showed up.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Chris Bolinger: And within like 6 to 8 weeks, it was like something clicked in my mind and I didn't get it completely, but I got it enough that I felt confident that, okay, it makes sense.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: I understand what Jesus did and how it changes things for me. But from that point until probably, I mean probably 20 years later, you know, you mentioned that IMPACT Players is all about building each other up through relationships and really valuing that relationship. I didn't really have relationships with men. I mean, I worked with men, I competed with men because I'm a tennis player. I still compete in tennis.
Warren Mainard: Oh, really?
Chris Bolinger: Yeah, yeah.
Warren Mainard: I was a tennis player.
Chris Bolinger: Oh, really?
Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah, I'm still playing.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah, we'll have to get out on the court sometime.
Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Because, and now I'm splitting my time between Ohio and Florida. So I'm in Florida in the fall and winter where...
Warren Mainard: That's perfect.
Chris Bolinger: I get to play tennis outside in January. You know, it's 70 degrees and sunny. It's just unbelievable for me. But I didn't really have any close male friends. I mean, maybe 1 or 2, but none of them went to my church.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so I was really going through life for the most part, kind of on my own. I mean, you know, I had a wife and kids and I had family, extended family. But I didn't really have men in my life who were who were sharpening me, who were speaking truth to me. And the reality is that I was I was intimidated by men. I grew really late, when I was a junior in high school, I was 5'5" and weighed about 115-120 pounds. And I was bullied in high school. And, I think that's part of the reason why I always kept men kind of at arm's length. Even when I grew, I'm 6'2" now, but I never felt confident around other men. I always felt like even in church, I felt like the men in church had their act together. And if they knew how messed up my personal life was, they probably wouldn't spend any time with me.
Warren Maianrd: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So I went through this until I was in my 40s, and then, I was attending a big church and they said, you guys really should be involved in a men's ministry and what they were championing at the time was a ministry called Christ Led Community, CLC. And CLC, they had one program back then. It was two years. You would meet with a group of 12 men for, two hours every week. You had a ton of outside reading and you were supposed to, these guys were supposed to know everything about you. You're supposed to be completely transparent with these guys. The whole thing started off with basically telling your story, telling, you know...
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: ...everything about yourself. And I don't know why, but because the old me would have said, oh forget that. There's no way, right? I mean, I'm not going to be transparent with men and make myself vulnerable with men. But, something inside me said, you got to do this.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: If you don't do this, you're always going to be wondering what would have happened if I had done that? So I ended up doing that program, and that changed my life. It changed my perspective on men. I discovered that men were not so intimidating. Every guy struggles with something, I was able to pour into these guys, and they poured into me. We prayed for each other, and the meetings went from being... And they were six in the morning, which I am not a morning person, especially in February in Ohio, where it's like -20 and there's a foot of snow on the ground.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: But these meetings became kind of my anchor, they were, I look forward to them. And so, I mean, I'm making my story kind of long, but I think that that made a huge difference in how I approached life and really changed the trajectory of my life, even though I was in my 40s at the time.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: It really made me almost a new man.
Warren Mainard: Chris, I know, one of the things we talk a lot about with IMPACT Players is we say every man needs a band of brothers.
Chris Bolinger: Yep.
Warren Mainard: And it's kind of a military term, but it's hearing your story just affirms that idea because, it's like you knew that there was something missing in your life and you were doing all the other things...
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: ...like you were leading kids and career and all that. And it's like you don't really necessarily know how impactful having a band of brothers can be in your life until either you gain one or you lose one, you know?
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And I think that's a powerful discovery that you were able to make. And I love how you kind of just described there that you were like, hey, I don't even know if I want to do this, but I know I need to do this.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah, I was terrified. I mean, honestly.
Warren Mainard: If I don't do it, I'll regret it. Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this was, you know, I'm not I'm not a huge risk taker, although I did I was part of a high tech startup in my 40s, a little bit before I got into this men's ministry. But there comes a time in your life where I think you have to say, look, are you tired enough of the way things are going? Or are you willing to do anything? I mean, can you look yourself in the mirror and say, I tried everything? And I had reached that point in my relationship with men where I said, I gotta, I got to do this, even I'm afraid, even though I feared it could work out very badly for me because of my misconceptions about the way men were. But I just I couldn't look myself in the mirror anymore. I knew I wasn't leading the kind of life that God wanted me to lead and that something had to change. Something major.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. Wow. So you mentioned, that you got into a startup. So maybe kind of share a little bit of what that was like. How did that impact your relationships, your marriage, family? I know startups can be pretty challenging on the relationships around you.
Chris Bolinger: Right, right. And that's a very good point. Which I, I'll cover, again as quickly as I can. So I had worked, I started off as a software engineer and then discovered that I really couldn't cut it as an engineer. Man, I could, but I used to room with two guys who were both software engineers in the same company I worked in, and these guys would work ten hour days and come home and talk shop until they went to bed. And I just I couldn't keep up.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: I just, I was wired a little differently. So I ended up getting going back to school, getting my masters in business and then becoming a product manager, which was a great change for me because it's a very, it's a discipline where you have to see all the players. So your goal as a product manager is to find the prospective customer and find a way to meet his or her needs. But you also deal with the people who are actually going to produce the solution. People are going to test it, people who are going to bring it to market. So you end up having to work through other people. You're really not in charge of anybody. I mean, the customer may think that the product manager has a lot of clout, but internally, everybody knows he doesn't have any clout. So it's this relationship type position where you work through other people. You have to persuade them. You have to be very convincing that this is the right thing to do. And here's why.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Chris Bolinger: And that that really influenced me a lot. So, fast forward about 20 years down the road and I was working for Cisco Systems, which is a great company, but we were in Ohio, so the powers in the company were out in San Jose, California. And we all knew that we might be gainfully employed there for a long time, but we're really not going to be calling the shots. And again, I was in my 40s. I'm thinking, okay, well do I want to stay a good corporate citizen for the rest of my life, or do I want to take a risk and challenge myself to see what I can do? And so one of the one of my coworkers had a great idea for a business, which was basically to take... Wi-Fi was still relatively new at that point. Cisco was a pioneer in Wi-Fi, and so we were going to take Wi-Fi and put it into industrial devices like barcode scanners that you see in a distribution center or a retail shop. You know, the people who scan items that have barcodes. And then it goes into inventory management. Not a sexy thing at all, but it's the lifeblood of companies like Walmart. I mean, Walmart has to know where everything is, how many they have, when to order automatically. I mean, even before Amazon, Walmart was really pioneering a lot of that stuff and it became one of the biggest companies in the world. So we decided to do the startup. We, by the grace of God, were successful, got the company off the ground and ended up selling it six years into it. And that was how I was able to exit from the tech world shortly after that. But you mentioned, it's stressing relationships. Well, it definitely stressed my marriage because I was comfortable taking the risk. But I was risking a lot, right? I mean, I had a comfortable job. We had three kids in Christian school. My wife didn't have to work because I was earning good money in the tech world, and I put that all at risk.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Ultimately, the startup did well, but there was a pretty good chance, I mean, four out of five startups are going to fail, and it's even higher in the tech world. And we're in Ohio. We're not in San Jose. So there's not a lot of people with briefcases full of money looking for startups, tech startups in Ohio. So that and some other things really put a stress on my marriage. And, after I went through the men's ministry of CLC, shortly after that, my wife said, we're done. And so, I mean, it wasn't completely because of the startup, but I'm sure that didn't help. And with a startup, you're also spending a lot of time at work. You know, I was trying, trying to balance work and family. But inevitably, with a startup, you're burning the candle at both ends, and I'm sure it affected my relationship with my kids as well, but it definitely hurt my relationship with my wife. But again, God's timing is always perfect. And he takes our terrible situations and make something beautiful out of them. And so the year that my wife left, at the beginning of that year is when I decided to write a devotional.
Warren Mainard: Wow.
Chris Bolinger: And so it was, I wasn't meeting with my band of brothers anymore, but I still had good relationships with many of them, good friendships with them. And so when the wheels came completely off my marriage, I had men in my life who could help me through that time. And in addition, I was never closer to God than when I was writing that first devotional. I mean, every day I was sitting down thinking about how to present the beautiful message of Scripture in a way that might be attractive to other men. That was my goal was to present the gospel in a way that men could read every day and get some benefit from. So I was putting on my product management hat and saying, I think there's men out there who might benefit from this if I do it right. So that got me through that terrible time. And you mentioned failure upfront. I mean, that's a, it's a huge failure. I mean, I can say it was somebody else's fault. But when you go through a divorce, you're wearing a sign of failure, really for the rest of your life. I mean, my marriage failed, I failed, I failed my kids, I failed my wife, I failed untold number of people. And you can rationalize it away. You can spiritualize it away. But the reality is that I'll bear that mark for the rest of my life.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. Because, I mean, the truth is is that, again, it doesn't matter whose fault it was or who is more to blame or anything like that. But you had a life goal to be married...
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...and remain married till death do us part.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And that didn't happen.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And so, you know, just from just the purely definition of the word...
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: ...it failed, you know, it did not accomplish its intended goal. And I know that for many of the men that are listening to this and who are part of IMPACT Players, they have very similar stories, where maybe because of their own mistakes or their own shortcomings, sins, and struggles, their marriage came to an end. And then there are other guys that, you know, really kind of in spite of all of their best efforts, the marriage still ended. And I don't know what's harder to live with between those two options, but I will say this as we kind of talk a little bit about this theme of strength and courage is when you feel like a failure, it kind of saps you, all of your desire to want to keep fighting, keep trying, keep pursuing, going after the things that matter in your life. So as you think about that, like how did that that band of brothers that did come around you, those guys that were supporting you and then that time that you were spending, writing the curriculum and therefore kind of soaking yourself in the Scripture and in prayer, how did that give you strength to navigate this really hard season that you were in, simultaneous to all that?
Chris Bolinger: I think that that the word I keep coming back to throughout this whole time in my life is encouragement. When I got through with the men's ministry and was not meeting with my band of brothers on a regular basis, I was still seeing some of them in church. Some of them went to my church so I would I would see them, but I wasn't spending that that deep, rich time with them every week. I recognized that I needed encouragement because I wasn't getting as much as I wanted to from these men because I wasn't seeing them as often. And so the thought occurred to me, well why don't you get a good men's devotional? Because that'll give you some encouragement. And so I went looking for one. And, I mean, I, I'm pretty critical of stuff. So I really wanted one that was going to be really good for me. I wanted it to be challenging. I wanted to be encouraging. I wanted it, to be something that I would enjoy reading every day.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And the bottom line is, I couldn't find one. Maybe there were some out there at the time, but I just couldn't find one that really appealed to me. So I said, putting on my product managers hat, I said, well I can't be the only one, so maybe I could write, and I was very naive, maybe I could write one. I've never written anything, but maybe I'll write one. And but my, when I started the project, I like putting together spreadsheets and tables. So I said, okay, let's get a table together. Let's find 365 verses in the Bible that I can write about. And I remember doing this, I said, let's make sure let's make sure every one of them is encouraging. You know, because the Bible is very encouraging as a whole. But could I find 365 verses or passages in the Bible that are encouraging on their own, even kind of out of context?
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so that, that occupied my time for a couple of months was going through and just gathering verses that were encouraging. And so I put them on the spreadsheet. I started with Genesis, Genesis 1:1. And, so I had these verses and then I said, okay, well, now I got to think of something to write about for each one of these, write something relatable and so I started gathering stories of people both, you know, people from history as well as people who are alive today and sort of piecing it together. Well, I discovered a couple months into it that I was never going to get done. Because I wanted to write meaty devotions. I didn't want to have just two paragraphs and a prayer, just I wanted to have something that you could sink your teeth into.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so I started writing these and after two months, I think I had 60 of them done. It's like I still have 300. I have 300 to go. It's never, I'm never going to make it.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so I decided, and I think I had my daughter's help with this because she's a phenomenal author. She was in college at the time, but she had already written a couple of published books even when she was in college. And so she and I together decided, okay, let's have two days for each verse. The first day will be the devotion. So my thoughts on the verse or relating the verse from my perspective. The second day will be the actual passage of the Bible where the verse came from. A related passage if I can, if I have room, and then some questions to really challenge the reader and apply it to his life, and then a prayer. So that became the format that. So now instead of having 60 pages done, I had 120. I had one hundred and 20 days done. I was, I had doubled my output. And the other thing I discovered was that because I had started with Genesis 1:1, I had done just Old Testament verses, and I thought, that'll be unique, but it's also good for me because I really don't read the Old Testament that much, right? I mean, I read the New Testament all the time. I probably read the New Testament cover to cover. I don't know how many times, but have I ever made it through with the whole Old Testament? And the reality was I hadn't. I hadn't read it all. So that was a challenge that helped me because I figured again, a lot of guys are probably like me where they just really they haven't read it. And as I got into it, it's like, oh my gosh this is great. It's just there were entire books that I really had just scratched the surface on before that. And then, you know, Ecclesiastes is a fantastic book. I mean, it's depressing, but it's great.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So, that kind of became the fuel that drove me. And then, when my wife left, that was also a fuel that, I was already feeling close to God. And so just continuing in this effort really helped me get through the rest of that year and help me finish the at least the first draft of the book.
Warren Mainard: Wow, wow. So you finished this devotional and you got it out there. And because I know a little bit about this part of the story, it definitely took off more than you could have imagined.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah. It was just, I give all the credit to God because I've never written anything. I don't, my daughter, who is in college, knows ten times more about publishing than I do. And I went to a writers conference and I don't have an agent. Nobody's ever heard of me. I've got excerpts from my book. I'm trying to circulate this. Nobody gives you the time of day. I did have... But at a writers conference I went to, I had one publisher who took a look. She took the time to take a look at what I had, and she said, I think you have something good here. I can't do anything with it myself. My company can't do anything with it. But, hang in there and again, that encouragement, somebody says, hey, I think this is something here. And then eventually, the acquisitions person, acquisitions person at a publishing house is somebody who goes out looking for material. So the acquisitions person at Broad Street Publishing contacted me and said, and I don't remember how he found out about me, but he's the one who kind of put it together. And so I ended up with Broad Street as my publisher, thanks to his efforts. I don't remember if I contacted him or he. I don't know how he found me but, you know, and that that was late 2017, early 2018. But I thought the book was done. And then the editors got ahold of it, and I'll just tell one quick story. This just indicates how naive and kind of stupid I was. So I'm a big song person. I love contemporary Christian music. I love rock 'n roll. I love all kinds of music. I love classical music. And so a lot of my devotions, I think about 25 of my devotions were this format. It was here's a verse from Scripture that makes me, that reminds me of this song. Here's the song lyrics, and then I tie it up with a bow at the end. Easy to write.
Warren Maianrd: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: You know, I thought it was great.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And then the editors at Broad Street take a look at and they said, well, you can't have song lyrics in your those are all copyrighted, that's and it's not even the artist who owns it typically it's some other house that owns these. And so under the gun I had to rewrite 25 devotions. I had to find a whole new way of presenting this because I couldn't use the song lyrics. So as a very educational, the first half of 2018 was. Kind of a blur because, I had to I had to make major changes to the book. All my devotions were too long. They wouldn't fit on the page. So it's just this flurry of activity. I've just been through a divorce. I'm trying to hold my life together and I'm doing all of this, but it was finished. The book came out in late 2018 and one of the great things about Broad Street, in addition to producing a beautiful book, they've got a leather cover on it, and they did a great job with everything in the book. But they also have a relationship with a company called Choice Books, and most of your audience probably never heard of them, but you've probably seen them, because if you go into a supermarket or a Wal-Mart or a gas station or a CVS, typically there is an inspirational reading rack somewhere near the door.
Warren Mainard: Yep.
Chris Bolinger: And that's where the vast majority of my sales come from. It's people, typically women, who are looking for Father's Day gift or a Christmas present or a birthday gift for somebody in, you know, a man in their life. And they say, oh, well, maybe he'll like this.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so that's been again, just a God thing that, I didn't know Broad Street. I didn't know Choice Books existed. I didn't know Broad Street had a relationship with them, but you know that that has been the bulk of the sales for my first book for Daily Strength.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. So there's a chance that some of the guys listening to this, either saw the book in one of those racks or had a wife or a mother, sister that saw the books in the rack and said, I'm going to buy this book and give it to you for Christmas or Father's Day, or birthday present.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And now all of a sudden they're going, wait a minute, this is the guy that wrote that book that I've got.
Chris Bolinger: Right, right.
Warren Mainard: That I went through, a year ago. So that's a pretty crazy thing. And you were sharing before we jumped on to the recording that as of maybe this summer, that the book is now crossed somewhere in the threshold of 400,000 copies.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah. Which is just insane.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: I mean, and I still can't get an agent. Nobody in the publishing world, even knows that I exist, which is fine, but it's just funny to me. It's just, it's, God has a great sense of humor because I just wrote this because I thought there might be a handful of guys out there if I can get this thing published, might be a handful guys out there who would benefit from this, right?
Warren Mainard: Right, right.
Chris Bolinger: And now there's, it's been translated into Spanish. Now it's, there's people using it in that I know of in 5 or 6 Latin American countries outside the US. I've had requests from a couple countries in Europe. I met a guy from Germany. He's been translating just individual devotions to help out some men that he works with. I mean, it's just crazy, right? I was just I was just happy to get the devotions to fit on the page. And rewrite the ones that have song lyrics and I'm just happy to get it across the finish line. And now, six and a half years later, it's just been, I guess six years later, it's been just blessing a lot of people and blessing me, untold ways as a result.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. I love it. So, Chris, let's talk a little bit about that idea of strength and courage. By the way, the name of the devotional is Daily Strength for Men. So guys, encourage you, in lack of, a flying J truck stop. You can find it on Amazon.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: Order it there. But Daily Strength for Men. But let's talk about kind of this theme today. Most men today, they know that there's something about being a man that inherently means that they are supposed to be strong, right?
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And you talked about that even like being a five foot five inch, 115 pound junior in high school, you didn't feel strong at that age and as a result, you were intimidated by other men around you because they're bigger, they're stronger, they're more confident, they're bullies. Whatever those things might be. And I think, honestly, Chris, that like regardless of how tall you are or how strong you are physically, a lot of guys kind of go through their whole lives internally feeling like that, five foot, five inch, 120 pound, kid, that inside they just don't feel strong. So maybe could, from what you've experienced in your journey, like what does what does that word even mean? Like, what does it mean for a man to be strong? And, I mean, I think we all know that it's something more than just, looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But what is a strong man, in your opinion?
Chris Bolinger: I think, first of all, that we place very high expectations on men. I think that when you talk strength, I mean, you can you can talk physical strength. And obviously, as a 16 year old, I would visualize physical strength because I didn't have any, but even if you're physically strong, I think that every man has an area of his life where he does not feel strong.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: It could be he's got an issue with alcohol or drugs. There's some weakness that he has. That kind of gnaws at him.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Because I think we have the expectation in our society, but also, I think each man internally has the expectation that he's going to be strong across the board, right? He cannot exhibit weakness or feel weakness in any area of his life or his character.
Warren Mainard: Right, right.
Chris Bolinger: But inevitably we're going to have failures in our lives. And as you mentioned, it might not be entirely your fault, but I'm not alone in feeling as a man that doesn't really matter if I, if I've had a failure, I'm going to point the finger back at me. There's something I could have done. There's something I could have said to avoid this or to make this better. So I think that, honestly, it's a trap, right? I mean, no man, no man can be flawless. We're all imperfect. We all have weaknesses. We all are going to struggle, and we're all going to fail.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So I think that, but I'll tell you, something that bothered me throughout my life, especially well, especially as a young man was this idea of 'let go and let God.' I always hate it, I always hated that expression because to me, it seemed like an abdication of...
Warren Mainard: Right.
Chris Bolinger: ...responsibility and also just, and I know we're supposed to rely on God. I know that I'm imperfect, that I can't do it. But it seemed like a false dichotomy.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Chris Bolinger: That it's either all me or it's all God and there's nothing in between.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And that always bothered me and it still bothers me to some extent. So I think that as man, we have to recognize that obviously we need God. We need the power of Jesus. We need the Holy Spirit to fill in for our weaknesses and our shortcomings and our mistakes and our failures, to wash us clean when we sin.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And to lead us forward. But I don't think, and I can talk about the parable of the guys that get the talents. I don't think we're supposed to just sit back and do nothing, just 'let go and let God'. I don't think that's a complete picture. I think that God has made us with skills and abilities and experiences that we can bring to bear with his help to not only benefit ourselves, but to strengthen others. So I think it's, I think strength is multifaceted and I think encouragement is a key part of it. And that's one thing that I've been missing for a lot of my life, was having men around me who could encourage me, who could point me to God, but also give me their strength and lift me up when I was falling down.
Warren Mainard: Yeah, that's a great insight. And I want to go back to something that you said a little earlier, because it just kind of was a almost like a light bulb moment for me, because you said something like, we're all weak in some way and this idea kind of ruminated in my mind of like why is it that men don't feel strong? And it's, on some level, it's because there's some area of their life where they feel weak, right?
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And that like that seems like a pretty obvious statement. But it's kind of like that idea of courage is not the absence of fear. It's the willing to face those fears and step into those fears even when you are afraid. And I think there's a similarity to that with strength and weakness where true strength is not the absence of weakness.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: But it's the ability to say I am weak in this area. I am struggling in this area. I'm falling apart, I'm failing. I don't have what I need to get through this. The ability to acknowledge the weakness is in many ways the definition of how a man becomes strong.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: So like the whole idea of getting men around you to encourage you, men can't encourage you if you don't let them know that you need to be encouraged and you can't be given courage from other people if there's not a sense that on some level, you need to be strengthened because you're feeling weak, you're feeling afraid, you're feeling overwhelmed. And of course, that that's the false dichotomy of manhood that so many guys struggle with is they say to themselves, I feel weak, I feel afraid, I feel trapped. But, I don't want to tell anybody that, because if I do, then they're going to think that I'm weak, afraid, and trapped. They're going to think what I actually am. And the truth, the true strong man is the one who's able to acknowledge that weakness and that fear, and then be given the resources by others and by God to be able to overcome that.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. One thing that I discovered when I started spending significant time with Christian men in a, and I didn't stress this before, but there's got to be confidentiality, if you're going to if you're going to bare your darkest secrets to a group of men, then you can't have it leave the room, right? I mean, these guys have to go to their graves protecting this information because it's a core part of who you are. And you'll be betrayed if somebody lets it out.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: But as I spent time with these guys, I discovered a couple things. One was that every time, well, every time a guy would admit a weakness in his life... Not every time, but oftentimes I recognize that, well, I have that same issue.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And if I didn't have it, somebody else in the room did.
Warren Mainard: Yes.
Chris Bolinger: Same thing, when I admitted that I struggled in an area or that I had a weakness or a failure, I have at least one, often several guys who would speak up and say, oh, I had a very similar experience.
Warren Mainard: Yes.
Chris Bolinger: And there's, and that's empowering because you are finding that other men are like you. You may have, the areas of struggle or weakness may be slightly different, but you can all relate.
Warren Mainard: Yes.
Chris Bolinger: And men have each other's backs in this kind of an environment, right? So they will not only pray for you and give you encouragement, but they'll also share with you this is what I did or this is what I tried that didn't work. Because as men, we want to we want to fix things, and we especially want to fix ourselves.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: And so when a trusted brother says, I tried that, it doesn't work. Here's why. Try this instead, or somebody else suggests trying something else instead. That's very empowering to me because I feel like I've got a safety net with these guys and I can succeed. He succeeded. I can do the same thing. The other thing that I discovered, or another thing that I discovered, was that sometimes you don't know why you have this weakness. You're frustrated with yourself. You don't know why. And other men can help unlock... I mean, counseling is great for this, too, so I just want to encourage guys to get counseling if you're really struggling with something. But when you have a group of men around you, somebody will say something or suggest something and you'll say, oh my gosh, I never thought of that. I've done a podcast with Mike Hatch for a couple of years, The Throwing Mountains podcast, and we interviewed a lot of different types of guys. One thing I never knew until we started interviewing certain types of men, was how trauma affects men.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Something like 50% or more of men have a significant traumatic event before they're 18. And I kind of minimize the bullying that happened to me. And I don't want to compare that to I mean, people have had much worse things.
Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.
Chris Bolinger: But, I buried it. I buried it, I just kind of wrote it off. And recently I've discovered that no, it still impacts me. Sometimes subconsciously, it's still somewhat defines me because I felt powerless at that time in my life to do anything about it.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So that's very helpful to men when you can begin to unlock why you do the things that you do, not to excuse bad behavior, but it's very helpful to know more of what makes you tick, because then you can address things that maybe you just never really understood, but you were so frustrated that you would bury it...
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: ...so that nobody else would see it.
Warren Mainard: Right, right. And that whole burying it is just a part of that kind of man's charade of strength.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: Right.
Chris Bolinger: Yep, yep.
Warren Mainard: Because it's just basically saying, like, I don't want to deal with it because if I deal with it, I'm going to I'm going to start crying. I'm going to fall apart.
Chris Bolinger: Yep.
Warren Mainard: So the best thing I can do is just try to tough it out. Forget about it. Shake it off.
Chris Bolinger: Shake it off.
Warren Mainard: And obviously there are, like massive pendulum swings...
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: ...between victimhood and victimization versus acknowledging like what has happened in your life and allowing yourself to work through that trauma. But I love how you talked about how, like just being around other men, especially when you think about the victimization component of it, is that like, when you're a victim, you do tend to think I'm the only one that has gone through this.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And when you realize that you're not the only one, that other men have gone through their own traumas that are unique and yet also very similar to what you're experiencing or have experience. Now you go, okay, I'm not alone in this, and just knowing that I'm not alone allows me to have a different perspective. That gives me the strength to be able to kind of get back up and walk through this. So I want to get into just kind of maybe 1 or 2 more questions and really, really getting very nitty gritty on this.
Chris Bolinger: Okay.
Warren Mainard: But like, what are some very practical ways that men can gain strength in their day to day life? Like if you were to say, like here are just a few tools or practices or habits that you have found in the lives of men who are strong according to kind of God's definition of strength. What are some of, those key practices or habits that you've seen for the men that are that are reflecting what you would define as strength?
Chris Bolinger: Obviously, every man's different. And so if I say you need to read, you need to read your Bible, read the great Christian authors, a lot of guys don't like to read. I understand that. So I would say you need to find a way to anchor yourself to God and to I'll put it this way. You need to check in with God on a regular basis. I've always marveled at people who say that they pray for, I have a quiet time and I pray for a half an hour. I'll fall asleep within three minutes. If I close my eyes and attempt to pray for a half an hour, I just, I can't do it.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So, but I find my anchors to God in in things like music. If I have, if I'm in my car, I'll listen to podcasts. Sometimes I'll listen to the Bible sometimes, but I really enjoy listening to familiar Christian songs. Just because, I mean, it just it pulls me back toward God.
Warren Mainard: Pull, yeah.
Chris Bolinger: I think every guy has to decide what those things are for him. But make sure you're filling time in your life with a connection to God, whatever that means for you. I also find for me that, and I think this happened to me in college, but if I want to remember something, I need to write it down. Even in our electronic age, there's something about, for me just getting a piece of paper and writing something down, so. Or underlining it in my Bible, doing something visual that will reinforce it for me. So I would encourage guys again, find that way of reinforcing the gospel and God's will for your life. Write it down, underline it, pray on it, say it over and over again, whatever will deepen that in your heart. And then the obvious one, which we've talked about a lot is get some guys in your life. If you don't have 'em, get 'em. It is tough. Guys are busy. We were talking before we went on the air. Guys are overloaded. We're not, they don't have a sign around their neck: I'm looking for a Christian friend. Guys just don't do that, right? They can be a tough nut to crack, but you probably already have some guys in your circles who you don't really know that well, but they're good guys. Have a cup of coffee with them, go golfing with them. Do something where you have some time. You're not going to bury your soul on the first meeting, but start to get involved in other guys lives, even if they're, even if it's not doing anything directly for you, that's not why you're doing it. So ask guys what you can pray for them for. Most guys don't ask that question, right? Women do it all the time.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Just, I play a lot of tennis and shouldn't come as a surprise to me, but after a match or even a hard fought match, there are some guys just want to they want to have a beer and talk. And I used to leave the court win or lose, I just "see ya" and I just go.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: Now it's like, hey, and I've met some really interesting guys and developed some friendships with guys that otherwise I would have just left in the dust because I didn't give them the time.
Warren Mainard: Yeah. That's good.
Chris Bolinger: Those are those are three things I can think of. That will make you stronger in a good sense.
Warren Mainard: Yep.
Chris Bolinger: That will anchor you to God, help you get your strength from God, but also develop that network of other men whom you can lean on and who can lean on you when they need to.
Warren Mainard: That's so good. Guys, this is really helpful and important to think about, and I just I love how you kind of preface this with like, hey, we're all unique in the way that we do this. And so, I mean, for me, like before I do anything to start my day, I've got to get my cup of coffee, open up my Bible, journal. And like, my journaling is not like a lot of emotional writing. It's more like, just kind of like literally writing down the things that I'm learning from the scriptures and insights that I'm gaining from it. So it's not your typical journaling, but for me that gives me this sense of grounding for the day that, okay, like I'm mentally, physically, spiritually locked in now, ready to go. And I love that like idea of like being intentional to connect with other men I tell guys that four words that can change your life: pick up the phone.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And if you're waiting on someone else to check in on you, to encourage you, to strengthen you, you're probably going to be waiting a long time.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And so one of the best ways that you can get strength and encourage others is by going and doing that for other men.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: Like go and bless some guys, encourage some guys, give a guy a phone call and say, hey, I was thinking about you, how are you doing? And generally over time guys start to reciprocate or even just in that call to say, okay, thanks for asking how I'm doing, but how are you doing? And then you kind of have that opportunity to share. And so I think those are those are great insights. And I would encourage guys to like get, not only get plugged into a men's group, but get plugged into a church.
Chris Bolinger: Right.
Warren Mainard: And find a strength from a band of believers at a church as well. Well, Chris, as we kind of bring this to an end, what would be kind of some final thoughts that you might share with our guys? Just about strength, courage, encouragement, that maybe you feel like every man needs to hear. In fact, let me just tee this up for you. If you could kind of just give us, like give these guys like a 62nd pep talk, what would you want every man to know if you wanted to encourage him today?
Chris Bolinger: The main thing I want guys to know, and I think we all know this, but it helps to hear it again, is that God made you uniquely for a specific purpose. Maybe more than one purpose, but you know you are incredibly important to God and to the people with whom you are going to interact on behalf of God. I don't say that very well. I'll give a quick example, if I could.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So I go through a divorce. I'm remarried now, a wonderful woman, but I still have the fallout from the divorce from six, seven years ago. But, one thing that my wife now pointed me toward was 2 Corinthians 1, and I don't have it open, so I'll just kind of paraphrase it. So it's, blessed be the God of all comfort who comforts us in our affliction so that we can comfort others who are going through something very, very similar. So God has not only made you unique for a purpose, but the things that you've been through, the tough stuff, the horrible stuff that you've been through has been part... I'm not saying that God designed you to go through those things, but because you've been through them, if you lean on God, he will help you use those experiences to benefit somebody else.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: I never really interacted with divorced people until I got divorced. And now I've got something in common with them, and I can help them out and they can help me out.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So whatever you've been through, God can use that and use you to benefit other people. And that's part of his plan and that's part of your purpose. So I think that God provides us the strength to get through the toughest times, in part because God wants to continue to use us and sometimes use us in a brand new way to help other people on to benefit his kingdom.
Warren Mainard: Yeah.
Chris Bolinger: So I don't think I said that incredibly well.
Warren Mainard: That's a good word.
Chris Bolinger: But, that's been a really important almost life verse for me as the first part of 2 Corinthians, where I went through this for a reason, and now I'm able to use it for something good that's been instrumental for me and kind of changing my perspective on what I've been through.
Warren Mainard: That's so good. God is there to comfort us in our hardest, darkest moments. And oftentimes he uses other people who have gone through those same kind of experiences to encourage and strengthen us.
Chris Bolinger: Yep.
Warren Mainard: And then he uses us to pass that blessing and that strength and courage onto others in the future.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And I think you're absolutely right, like every hard thing in my life that I've been through, there have come moments where I've found myself sitting across the table from a man or a woman who was going through what I've been through.
Chris Bolinger: Yeah.
Warren Mainard: And I was able to encourage them and comfort them and give them hope because I had already experienced it myself. And I think that's a great way to kind of wrap this up is just to say that wherever you are in that spectrum, whether you're the guy that's in need of comfort and courage right now, you're going through it or you're walking along somebody else that's going through it, you have something to offer and something to receive, and that's a powerful reminder. Well, Chris, thank you so much for being a part of the Linking Shield podcast, if people want to find out more about what you're doing, learn more about your ministry and the work that you do, what would be the best way for people to follow you?
Chris Bolinger: I'm on social media, but I would say, go to mensdevotionals.com. That's my website.
Warren Mainard: Okay.
Chris Bolinger: Books are out there, articles that I've written. You can contact me there. So look me up on, I think I'm on all the major social media platforms except for Snapchat. My kids haven't got me on there yet, but I'm not on TikTok yet, but I probably will be, or just go on mensdevotionals.com.
Warren Mainard: All right, guys, be sure to check out Chris. Chris, thank you for so much for being a part of this podcast with us. Guys, I hope you're encouraged today to be strong and courageous because that is the man that God's called you to be. And, that doesn't mean that you don't have days where you feel weak. It means that on those days that you feel weak, you keep going. So keep going, guys. Thanks, we'll catch you guys next time.
